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BSF Thread, More BSF Delays in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; The impending doom may take a little longer than feared: BBC News Link Originally Posted by BBC "Local authorities plans ...
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    steve's Avatar
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    More BSF Delays

    The impending doom may take a little longer than feared:

    BBC News Link
    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    "Local authorities plans show that we expect 12 new schools to be open by December 2008, 35 more in 2008-09, 115 more in 2009-10, 165 more in 2010-11, and then around 200 a year and rising thereafter," said Mr Knight.
    With 3500 to do that's a long time before even 1/2 are done.

    If 200 per year after 2012:

    1700 by end of 2018
    All 3500 by end of 2027

    That would average out at about 1/3 of schools being tied into a BSF ICT contract at any one time.

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    I get the impression that it's slowly grinding to a halt personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    I get the impression that it's slowly grinding to a halt personally.
    Good call, especialy since we probably won't have labour in 'charge' after the next election.
    Last edited by K.C.Leblanc; 6th February 2008 at 08:56 AM.

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    antoeknee's Avatar
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    The academy we are suppose to be going into has just lost its sponsors!

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    I think the programme will naturally pick up speed as LEA's learn from the mistakes of those who who went before them. However, one of the main problems still seems to be that there just aren't enough people in the building trade to cover all the bases and council staff have been pared down to the bone over the years.
    One of the fears here is that in order to speed the process we'll get into "flat pack" buildings which will go up quickly, not necessarily meet the needs of the school communities, and within a few years start falling apart.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve View Post
    The impending doom may take a little longer than feared:

    BBC News Link


    With 3500 to do that's a long time before even 1/2 are done.

    If 200 per year after 2012:

    1700 by end of 2018
    All 3500 by end of 2027

    That would average out at about 1/3 of schools being tied into a BSF ICT contract at any one time.
    i read that the target was for 40% of schools in the BSF programme to be rebuilt, the rest would be refurbed or modernised.....

    it's still a major undertaking to refurb the 1500+ schools that need modernising.....so i'm expecting the proportion of re-build schools to drop from the 40% estimate to about 25%, and attention to be focused on refurbishment. It's often the case that the ambition of large government projects such as this is reined in once the project hits the ground and ministers realise the enormity of the inital promises...

    Brown was always a shameless headline grabbing tax and spend chancellor.....when the public accepted that public spending was needed to correct the years of under investment it effectively gave the government tacit approval to spend....i think the general attitude is changine to one of extreme scpetism that keeping up those levels of public spending will result in the improvements promised. Spending billions on BSF is just seen as another example of money down the bog. Another bottomless pit.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Or that once a 'good' design has been done a few times it will become a template for other schools ... we will end up with 20 designs that have to be picked from a catalogue.

    The secret is to make sure that people *are* learning from mistakes ... and there is still the battle about making sure innovation isn't stifled too.

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    I know of at least one consortium that is bidding flat-pack school buildings, to be constructed outside the UK.

    I agree with Grumbledooks comment about template schools. This is inevitable, too much time (& money) is being spent discussing the finer points of building design. There are too many consultants and architects involved, all of whom are trying to get their next piece of business....

    Of course the biggest hurdle of all to the template approach is each HT has his/her view of what their school should look like and they won't want something designed 5 years earlier for a school at the other end of the country!

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    Dos_Box's Avatar
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    Of course the biggest hurdle of all to the template approach is each HT has his/her view of what their school should look like and they won't want something designed 5 years earlier for a school at the other end of the country!
    Or the other end of another country!

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Simple ... it is built so that internal walls can be changed around if they want at a later date. The savings by choosing from a pre-designed catalogue will give a chunk more money back to the school to work with.

    The only problem is that once cost savings start to happen it will be spotted and less funding will go to an individual build instead ... ah, so *that* is where the future cost savings are going to be!

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    broc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    Simple ... it is built so that internal walls can be changed around if they want at a later date. The savings by choosing from a pre-designed catalogue will give a chunk more money back to the school to work with.
    In a discussion with architects I suggested much the same. I said a 'shed-like' building such as a superstore with services buried in the floor and moveable partitions would allow for greater flexibility as the curriculum changes. He frowned & said the 'brief' was for buildings that had 'character', 'presence', and delivered 'wow-factor' and you could hardly get that from a shed! I suspect the architects of such a design would not get any design awards either, this is far more important to them than a building that works

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    It sounds like an engineering solution, I'm not surprised architects don't like it.

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    torledo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    In a discussion with architects I suggested much the same. I said a 'shed-like' building such as a superstore with services buried in the floor and moveable partitions would allow for greater flexibility as the curriculum changes. He frowned & said the 'brief' was for buildings that had 'character', 'presence', and delivered 'wow-factor' and you could hardly get that from a shed! I suspect the architects of such a design would not get any design awards either, this is far more important to them than a building that works

    as much as i hate architects and planners using the terms 'character' and 'wow factor' i think template schools and, for want of a better word, 'functional' buildings like the one you suggested broc, will be difficult to do becuase part of the construction process now involves impact on the surrounding environment. School design and build is no different to other buildings in that they have a duty to compliment their surroundings and not stick out like a sore thumb.

    I know that can distract from whether the school is functional and is engineered to fullfill it's purpose. But we've got enough multi-storey car parks, shopping centres, supermarkets and the like blotting our landscape, let's not add new build schools to the list of square shaped eyesores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax View Post
    One of the fears here is that in order to speed the process we'll get into "flat pack" buildings which will go up quickly, not necessarily meet the needs of the school communities, and within a few years start falling apart.
    Funny you should say that we have a school design at the moment with no space to do exams! but a fancy staircase and what is at the top of it......

    yes you guessed it a bunch of open plan toilets!!!

    Pathfinder school btw not BSF

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    Quote Originally Posted by broc View Post
    He frowned & said the 'brief' was for buildings that had 'character', 'presence', and delivered 'wow-factor'
    Can we have a *cry* smilie please? How about 'usability', 'flexibility' and 'accessibility'. For a bonus -ity I'll take 'security'.

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