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BSF Thread, BSF ICT Contracts Awarded in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by TerryTibbs Described total carnage....... Wow. This is all our money that is going to waste on this ...
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    Butuz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTibbs View Post
    Described total carnage.......
    Wow. This is all our money that is going to waste on this kind of carnage. Imagine all the project managers, consultants. lawyers etc involved in that one with 7 diffrerent companies/organisation mentioned.

    We are paying for this mess - heads need to roll!


    Butuz

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    Wow, that mess is worthy of being in Private Eye!

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    Ah, what a tangled web we weave.

    No conflict of interest there then.

    HBJB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    Imagine all the project managers, consultants. lawyers etc involved in that one with 7 diffrerent companies/organisation mentioned.
    Butuz
    It would be worth making some Freedom of Information Requests to find out just how much has been spent on project managers, consultants. lawyers etc in the process of doing nothing for Greenwich under the auspices of BSF

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    MMA
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    Greenwich

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryTibbs View Post
    Although it seemed that Vosper Thornycroft Education and Skills (VT ES) won Greenwich the picture is actually much murkier, weird and possibly holed beneath the water line.

    VT ES did not in fact win Greenwich - although VT PLC is now running the bid in Greenwich since a tripartite Lewisham/Greenwich/Deptford(?) LEP collapsed.

    VT PLC is not VT ES (who I think turnout to be a management buy-out of Surrey Education Services which was purchased by VT PLC.)

    VT PLC have now chosen Ramesys to run IT services in the borough since Northgate dropped out (citing chaos) and the other one (some company called Azzurri ) stalled because their offer was predicated on thin client and the network (which they did not control or manage) would not supply the bandwidth they needed. Ramesys has meanwhile gone very close to administration and the whole project has been mired by contractual wrangling. It has meant that what was initially supposed to cover 7 schools now covers 2 and no others will be considered for inclusion. Greenwich was a pathfinder, but still nothing has been built which has made Balfour Beatty unhappy and litigious because the timescales are way off and the responsibilities/liabilities are not clear. The process to date has taken 3 years to get no where.

    As an aside, it's interesting to note that the current Vice Chancellor of Greenwich University is Labour life peer Baroness Tessa Blackstone or more properly Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone former Labour Minister for Education from 1997 to 2001. Baroness Tessa Vosper Blackstone sits on the board of Vosper Thornycroft PLC

    Do note that Greenwich BSF is being delivered through an alternative model to the LEP. VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA, a model for BSF delivery chosen by the local authority, which is taking longer to deliver than the LEP model. Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme.

    VTE&S is 100% part of VT PLC. The Surrey element refered to is VT Four S. VT Four S is not a management buyout, but a Joint Venture between Surrey County Council and VT Plc providing school improvement services and expertise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA View Post
    Do note that Greenwich BSF is being delivered through an alternative model to the LEP. VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA, a model for BSF delivery chosen by the local authority, which is taking longer to deliver than the LEP model. Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme.

    VTE&S is 100% part of VT PLC. The Surrey element refered to is VT Four S. VT Four S is not a management buyout, but a Joint Venture between Surrey County Council and VT Plc providing school improvement services and expertise.
    Any chance you're going to declare your interest on this? All your posts thus far have related to VT PLC.

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    Sheffield is going with Civica

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA View Post
    VT is the Strategic Partnering Organisation for Greenwich LA...Tessa Blackstone and Greenwich University have no connection to the LA's BSF programme.
    Here is Tessa Blackstone having absolutely nothing to do with VT and thereby no connection to the Greenwich BSF programme

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    MMA
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    I didn't say she had nothing to do with VT. I was simply trying to be helpful by explaining the facts. The ownership of VTES etc can easily by checked through companies house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA View Post
    I didn't say she had nothing to do with VT. I was simply trying to be helpful by explaining the facts.
    No what you tried to do was 'issue a rebuttal' while deliberately glossing over an interesting connection. You were helpful in explaining the ownership of VT ES and distinguishing it from VT Four S. A reasonable assumption is that you work for VT or perhaps for their PR company.

    May be you would like to be even more helpful and explain away how Ramesys were chosen, why Northgate dropped out and what happened to Azzurri, touching on VT PLC's part in such a large-scale screw-up which has meant that nothing has yet been built.

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    Litherland in Sefton is going to Northgate, I got my contracting out meeting this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torledo View Post

    This begs the question, why haven't other authorities with similar deals not gone down the same route ? why do they have one provider for council IT and another for schools under BSF ? Tim warren of liverpool appears to answer this question...
    I know this was mentioned a while ago, but I work in an LA that has a Joint Venture with BT, and has done for several years.

    There always has been an ICT element relating to schools. In the form of WAN, internet connections and some central services such as email and antivirus amongst other. They also offer a procurement service to try to benefit from economies of scale.

    However this supposed utopia is not always the case. Schools do not all want the same equipment, they have different levels of expertise and investment and other things which I cannot mention on a public forum.

    It appears that my LA realise that this is not the preferred option for BSF to utilise the 'managed' service already offered and it is offered not mandatory. Some schools are fully integrated with the service using their AD etc. Others are as minimally involved as possible merely using the service as an ISP.

    I would have hoped that my LA would be share schools concerns with a managed service given that we already use one and we can see the pitfalls, however they also need the money to rebuild so why would they. Interestingly their stance appears to be, X school wants this level of integration, y school wants this level and that is what the MSP will have to deal with. Similar to our existing provision but not from the JV company.

    My own view is that no provider would want to be the MSP in this scenario as the costs would be huge to provide some services to some and more to others. They will want to do the same thing in every school to minimise costs and maximise profit.

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    Posted this on another thread but I suppose it should be here - Northgate and Balfour Beatty have won the Blackburn/Bolton BSF. RM won't be happy.

    Makes Northgate a favourite on Hull BSF now.

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    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8268116.stm

    Anyone noticed this? I onder how many BSF projects have fallen foul of all of our fraudulant building companies.... probably all of them!

    Shocking that they all just get a small fine - they should be getting prison.

    Butuz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Butuz View Post
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8268116.stm

    Anyone noticed this? I onder how many BSF projects have fallen foul of all of our fraudulant building companies.... probably all of them!

    Shocking that they all just get a small fine - they should be getting prison.

    Butuz
    I wouldn't call 18m for Kier a 'small fine' and the others aren't far short of that either - not sure how some of the firms will stay afloat if they have to pay in full and where that leaves councils who have contracts with them.

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