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BSF Thread, Edugeek and BSF in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; I noticed that Edugeek seems to work with RM from time to time. In relation to BETT and BSF . ...
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    monkeyx's Avatar
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    Edugeek and BSF

    I noticed that Edugeek seems to work with RM from time to time. In relation to BETT and BSF. Has there every been a public statement regarding Edugeek and its relationship to RM?

    Given what is happening with BSF, I would be grateful to know what Edugeek's relationship is with RM (if any).

    It may help me place some of posts in the BSF forum in better contect if I knew.

    Thanks,

    Monkeyx

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    TechMonkey's Avatar
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    One of the admins will able to give a definitive answer but as far as I am aware EduGeek are working with RM in a semi consulting sense to try and get an overview of what is happening for us and to help RM work out where we are coming from. I think also RM have supported EduGeek in relation to BETT.

    Why are you worried there are dodgy under table dealings going on?

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    russdev's Avatar
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    Right: -

    RM have provided various things for BETT so main thing is hotel rooms are paid by RM. They also paid sponsor of few of the forums. We also are using some of Olympia two for few things.

    In terms of BSF we work with any company that wants to talk to us. We had a meeting with rm to have open discussion about bsf, middleware and more.

    RM will often ask us about ideas and we give our views.

    But like all people we work with if they asked us not to be independent then we tell them to jump.

    Our main contact has said time and time again us staying independent us most important thing. In fact two members of rm's board also said same thing.

    In terms of me and RM that is well documented.

    Russ

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    monkeyx's Avatar
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    I am not implying anything dodgy at all.

    Although, I do think some of the updates provided regarding BSF have not always been as independent as I would have liked. But members have made up for that with their own views.

    Russ's reply is very honest and I hope the site does strive to remain independent.

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    Grommit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by russdev View Post
    Right: -

    RM have provided various things for BETT so main thing is hotel rooms are paid by RM. They also paid sponsor of few of the forums. We also are using some of Olympia two for few things.

    In terms of BSF we work with any company that wants to talk to us. We had a meeting with rm to have open discussion about bsf, middleware and more.

    RM will often ask us about ideas and we give our views.

    But like all people we work with if they asked us not to be independent then we tell them to jump.

    Our main contact has said time and time again us staying independent us most important thing. In fact two members of rm's board also said same thing.

    In terms of me and RM that is well documented.

    Russ
    Is this not a conflict of intrests ?

    As we know the RM is one of the biggest supporters of the BSF in wiping out the In-House ICT Support Community...

    as well they are getting most of the contracts..

    So it seems that Edugeek is not really serious about protecting the jobs of Network Managers

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    Geoff's Avatar
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    EduGeek is not a union. :P

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    What's better?...

    Not having EduGeek (a community for, lead by, and supporting, IT professionals in schools) involved in talking to BSF bidders - so our views, the problems we know are going to occur, etc. are not stated, BSF and the Gov. go on their merry way, and we end up in dire circumstances for schools, students, and ourselves.

    Or

    Having EduGeek involved in talking to BSF bidders - Putting our views across, lending our insight into the situation, getting the best possible situation for the schools, students, and us, out of what is happening.

    I think the latter is the best option don't you? If EduGeek didn't get involved, it's not like BSF would grind to a halt, the outcome would just be far worse.

    Yes - BSF is a mistake (my opinion, I don't speak for EduGeek in that statement) - but we can't stop it - so lets make the best of a bad situation.

    The stakeholders and bidders are actually ASKING for EduGeeks input - input from the professionals - this can only be a good thing.

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    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    This will be answered in 2 parts.

    Firstly, EduGeek has always said, and always will say, that we are independent of any other company. We have several sponsors that go further than others in providing assistance for events and so on. For BETT we have had assistance from RM, Sun, Serif, Smoothwall, D-Link, IDG, Oliis and Navaho.

    Secondly, we intend to work with as many of the BSF bidders as possible to find out how they approach BSF and where support staff fit in throughout the process. At the moment only RM has really come up with the goods with allowing us access to the high level people for this sort of conversation. We will be using this week as another opportunity to approach the various BSF bidders here. Also, please remember that the people meeting these companies are doing so in their own time, often taking holiday from their work place to do so.

    If there is ever any conflict of interest we will attempt to go to the lesser of two evils and make this clear to members.

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    Grommit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diello View Post
    The stakeholders and bidders are actually ASKING for EduGeeks input - input from the professionals - this can only be a good thing.
    Is it ? Is this for our benefit or for the benefit of the company asking for the input.... them then knowing what obstacles can arise and to plan on circumventing them.. (information is power)

    As if I was RM I would keep an eye out for any one trying to hinder me and then “chat” to them to find out what the issues are…

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    This will be answered in 2 parts.

    Firstly, EduGeek has always said, and always will say, that we are independent of any other company. We have several sponsors that go further than others in providing assistance for events and so on. For BETT we have had assistance from RM, Sun, Serif, Smoothwall, D-Link, IDG, Oliis and Navaho.

    Secondly, we intend to work with as many of the BSF bidders as possible to find out how they approach BSF and where support staff fit in throughout the process. At the moment only RM has really come up with the goods with allowing us access to the high level people for this sort of conversation. We will be using this week as another opportunity to approach the various BSF bidders here. Also, please remember that the people meeting these companies are doing so in their own time, often taking holiday from their work place to do so.

    If there is ever any conflict of interest we will attempt to go to the lesser of two evils and make this clear to members.
    Yes and the result from the RM meeting was very impotent (yes that's impotent not important)... all we got from them was .. “Yes we take over your Network and here is one of our happy drones”...

    As I have said before Edugeek is fence sitting with a softly softly approach… Asking RM to show how they approach BSF is like asking Hannibal Lecter how he is going to cook you….

    We need to get The Press, Media and Local Government Involved.. yet nothing has been done in this area… on how much money is wasted in the BSF Managed Services forced policy.. and whether it is suitable for all schools..

    Getting sponsorship from Serif, Smoothwall, D-Link, IDG, Oliis and Navaho. Is fantastic but from sponsorship from RM is also like sitting down to eat with Hannibal Lecter.. you are feasting on the bones of the redundant Network Managers… and they will have absolutely no hesitation in taking you out (Network Managers) when the BSF rolls into your town
    Last edited by Grommit; 10th January 2008 at 11:20 AM. Reason: clarify

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    Edugeekers are free to form a political pressure group - unison are being particularly useless, so it might not be a bad idea (are unison even aware of the scale of bsf?). Ultimately the forums could die if all Techs/NM's are moved into companies and have little technical maneuverability. But at the end of the day Edugeek is just a forum, its not a democracy. Edugeek decided to go down the path of commercial sponsorship, and take on all the responsibility that that entails, including criticism of bias. I don't think it's too bad so far, but I'll leave if/when the forum gets sold off entirely.

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    SpuffMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    EduGeek is not a union. :P
    Shame!

    Why does my message have to be at least 10 characters??

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    does a space count as a chararcter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    unison are being particularly useless, so it might not be a bad idea (are unison even aware of the scale of bsf?).
    I know Unison is fully aware of the scope & size of BSF at least at a local level, having attended some local union meetings as a BSF 'interested party'. However, their primary goal will be to ensure that employee rights under TUPE are protected as far as possible & that's about it. At a national level I suspect Unison are wrestling with bigger problems such as single status & the threat of litigation, not to mention national pay bargaining with a Government determined to force all its employees to endure below inflation pay increases for the next three years. I am guessing that BSF is not something they will take a stand over, especially as ICT support staff represent quite a very small percentage of Unison members.

    My wife is a Unison shop steward in a school in a neighbouring LA; at her school none of the ICT staff belong to Unison, and when the LA organised a meeting for all ICT staff affected by their proposed managed service the one remaining ICT technician at her school was wondering if he could be bothered to attend.....

    It's no surprise then he's the only ICT support staff left at her school as the NM and their other technician have recently jumped ship because of BSF.....

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    monkeyx's Avatar
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    I very rarely use Edugeek now, I only used it yesterday to test out new forums.

    I would rather not pass any more comments on BSF as I have said all I wanted to a while ago now.

    It was the replies from staff members relating to BSF that helped me decide I wanted to use this site less.

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    EduGeek and BSF response part II




    And now for the sensible part.

    Folks, we have been through this before. We have agreed to disagree about many things on the site and that is fine ... that is the way the site works. People are allowed to have differeing opinions about things.

    BSF is a very touchy subject for many members but we are not a union. We are doing what we can to keep people informed about what they can do (within our knowledge of what they can do) when BSF comes knocking at the door.

    However, if you want to be vocal about BSF and kick up a stink and try and get the unions to do something then fine ... go and do it. We have pointed out before that we are always happy for people to get involved and give their experience and point of view ... and here is the key thing, in as constructive manner as possible.

    Shouting and screaming that we will all lose our jobs and then doing bugger all but saying that you won't get involved is just putting a tin foil hat on.

    As for the staff (presumably Admins mainly) and their views on BSF ... those of us who have been involved in the conversations (namely me and RussDev) have a sense of 'realism' about all of this. We keep telling people that getting involved at a local level is the only way you will make a change.

    EduGeek sits on the fence. We admit it ... but we also sit on the fence about Windows vs OSX vs *nix ... we sit on the fence with SIMS vs CMIS ... with Moodle vs Sharepoint ... it is called a balanced view. Personally I draw the line on Vi vs emacs ... everyone knows vi is best!

    As always, if you have information and news about things then yes, share it here. If you are going to pointlessly attack a company because you don't like their business model or what they deliver, then yes, we don't think it is fair to us or the suppliers.

    Yes, the site has had to become more commercial ... it is either that or we charge for the site.

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