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BSF Thread, How to find out a preferred bidder in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Can't afford tin hats, budget wont cover it Luckily we still have a few cadburys roses tins left over from ...
  1. #16

    MK-2's Avatar
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    Can't afford tin hats, budget wont cover it
    Luckily we still have a few cadburys roses tins left over from Christmas. They'll do!

    Just been told (well, I was saying it and boss confirmed it) that the now two choices for Nottingham are Inspired Spaces and Transform Schools.
    Inspired Spaces has Ramesys as IT and Transform has Northgate.
    Ramesys is less than 5min walk from our school, but can't find much on Northgate, apart from their site stating they just got the IT contract for Cadbury Schwepps. So trips to sort out the dairy milk production could be on hand

  2. #17

    Geoff's Avatar
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    There is a thread on Northgate here:

    http://www.edugeek.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13276

    Perhaps you should talk to beeswax?

  3. #18
    Grommit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    Our head promised us on about 5 occasions that our contracts would stay with the school, 100% guarantee, then asking him again sometime earlier this year he said 'well yes it might change'.
    They do not want us to know stuff in case we say 'sod it I'm off then'
    This has happened to many many ICT Support Staff... at the start when the big shock hits that the school loses control of the ICT the Senior Managers say "we're with you and behind you and over our dead bodies" etc..

    But then the money comes rollin in and the conditions are told .. then it's... "maybe you might not be employed by the school any more, or sorry my hands are tied, or it's the system"...

    Yep heard it first hand from the other county schools to thier ICT Staff as well..

    Why isn't the ICT Manager at the meetings ? is your Boss the ICT Manager ?

    Also what is to consider is the cost of £90 per pupil for the Support..

    So a school of 1200 pupils will cost £108,000.00 per year for very basic support 8:30 to 5.. just for the PC's, Printers and servers... any thing else is additional..

    BSF pays for the first year but for the rest of the 4 years of the contract the school has to find the funding themselves..

    What do you and your boss cost the school and how much additional support do you give...

    This is where the BSF is BAD value for money..

    Destroys the ICT Community of a school...
    Last edited by Grommit; 7th January 2008 at 03:43 PM.

  4. #19

    broc's Avatar
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    According to http://www.cnplus.co.uk/News/notting...A3AE3245F12B5C dated 19th Nov 2007

    "Nottingham City Council has shortlisted two consortia for the £90 million first phase Nottingham Building Schools for the Future scheme in the East Midlands.

    The shortlist for the scheme has been whittled down to Inspired Spaces, led by Carillion, and Transform Schools, led by Balfour Beatty and Mansell."

  5. #20

    Geoff's Avatar
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    It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out.
    another man in the middle taking his cut.

  7. #22
    Grommit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaz350 View Post
    another man in the middle taking his cut.
    and less service...

    Why is it that everyone thinks that paying double for ICT support and getting a much lower service is a good thing?

    All you are really getting is a locked down inflexable network...

  8. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by MK-2 View Post
    GD: Our boss, the head of IT was involved in all the BSF meetings and marking of the bidders etc. When she came back from the meeting my immediate boss (senior tech) and I asked her what bidders were chosen and were told we cant be told anything as its confidential. She said she couldn't tell us which companies or what each company was proposing in terms of keeping technical staff on.
    It wasn't a case of us asking and management not. It was us asking a person who had sat in the meeting when they must have said 'the preferred bidders are x x and x' and then told us they are sworn to secrecy.
    I'm not bothered to be honest, if I'm going to leave, I will, which bidder is chosen won't mean the difference in me staying or going.

    I think it stems from the fact that when my boss and I said we were unhappy with the whole BSF thing so would probably look for other work because chances are we'll be outsourced or have very little server work here, the school thought that the less they tell us then the less we can use for leaving.
    Our head promised us on about 5 occasions that our contracts would stay with the school, 100% guarantee, then asking him again sometime earlier this year he said 'well yes it might change'.
    They do not want us to know stuff in case we say 'sod it I'm off then'
    The indication is that staff will be TUPE'd across to the preferred bidder?
    Whats the union doing? Consultation is supposed to be taking place elevating worries and concerns over employment contracts etc. get onto your unison branch asap.

    in a normal council/outsourcing bidding process (non bsf), a council will invite bids with a broad specification and different companies will put in their bids. The invitation to tender will be a public advert.

    What is going on here does sound peculiar to say the least, but anything that is decided will be minuted, and you can get that info if you choose - all council minutes are publicly available. Anything that you are not sure about you can get from a Freedom of Information act search - give an FOI list to the head teacher/LA if your union are doing nothing. If they fail to give the information within 20 working days they are in breach of the law. - The only information that is confidential and commercially sensitive is the price of the bid.

  9. #24

    GrumbleDook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    The only information that is confidential and commercially sensitive is the price of the bid.
    'Fraid not. Lots of information can be deemed commercially sensitive and will not be released in case it prejudices their bid in comparison to another bidder. If that wasn't the case then all that other bidders would have to do would be to issue an FOI request, work out what your costs are likely to be and then undercut you by 2%.

    In an ongoing competitive bid situation information will only be given to those involved in scoring of the bids, or working on criteria to score the bids.

  10. #25

    MK-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out.
    Yep, as I said earlier (I think), Inspired Spaces has Ramesys as their IT, and Transform has Northgate.

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out.
    Quite a lot of PFI type work is subcontracted right down to the level of the man who gets called to replace the flickering strip light after the building opens. That's why you end up with situations where a fault gets reported to the PFI site operator, who then calls his 'local' contractor who then schedules the work at some future date when he has someone available as his workforce is spread so thin because of the low price he had to bid to get a slice of the work in the first place.

    Some of the 'bid' business is sold on after the bid has been finalised so don't be too surprised if you don't see any IT companies in the frame until late in the day as the ICT spend represents only about 10% of a typical BSF contract and I suspect does not get as much attention as we would like!

    It's interesting to note that (as far as I am aware) none of the major 'global' IT outsourcing operations such as EDS, IBM & others has shown any interest in bidding for the BSF ICT business. I suspect it's because they have realised they cannot make it pay. There again, I have never seen a business case for BSF and the outsourcing of ICT, has anyone else I wonder?

  12. #27


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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumbleDook View Post
    'Fraid not. Lots of information can be deemed commercially sensitive and will not be released in case it prejudices their bid in comparison to another bidder. If that wasn't the case then all that other bidders would have to do would be to issue an FOI request, work out what your costs are likely to be and then undercut you by 2%.

    In an ongoing competitive bid situation information will only be given to those involved in scoring of the bids, or working on criteria to score the bids.
    In that case the price of the bid should be public information:

    5. Is the information commercially sensitive?
    Companies compete by offering something different from their rivals. That difference will often be the price at which the goods or services can be delivered but that difference may also relate to quality or specification. Information which identifies how a company has developed that unique element is more likely to be commercially sensitive. For example where a company competes on price, it may be that the final price charged is readily available, however information disclosing how the company is able to offer the product at that price may not be. That is information revealing profit margins is more likely to be commercially sensitive. This argument can extend to working practices etc that allow a quality of service to be more efficiently delivered.
    http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documen..._interests.pdf



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