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BSF Thread, BSF Meeting in United Kingdom (UK) Specific Forums; Originally Posted by psydii Russ: The 4Ps model is Gordon Brown's baby, and given Ed Balls (GB's protege, and tipped ...
  1. #46

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by psydii
    Russ: The 4Ps model is Gordon Brown's baby, and given Ed Balls (GB's protege, and tipped for the future top job at the Treasurey) is now heading up Schools. I'd be quite supprised if the investment programme is really stopped.

    Back to TU
    I agree it is but only so much money available from few discussions had with people there is some real concern about funding.

    Also then there is possible chance even if slightly that labour are removed in proposed up and coming election.

    Russ

  2. #47

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by psydii
    Second part, your pension is protected by law under TUPE.
    I am not a lawyer, but I have now got reason to believe that the above statement is not true, and is in fact a line used to put us at ease. :?

    http://www.cipd.co.uk/subjects/empla...tm?IsSrchRes=1

    Re elections. Unless they really screw things up in the next few months they are going to get another term (assuming a snap election).
    That will trigger Cameron to resign, which in turn will increase labours chances of **another** election win.

    At some point BSF will get rebranded/scoped a la ppp ->pfi.

  3. #48
    monkeyx's Avatar
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    ???

  4. #49

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey
    ”Under the BSF you ENTIRE ICT Support department is handed over to a 3rd Party Contractor...
    You will be offered a job with this new company..”

    What if your IT department is 1 man who spends 50% of his time in classrooms doing classroom working with children as you’re a small school? What about the stuff the IT staff do that’s not covered by the Contractor? What about pensions if your TUPED?
    I'm still looking for the relevant doc, but since April 2007, once you cease to be employed by the LA, your LA pension is frozen. However, the company which is contracted to employ you has to provide a pension scheme of similar value.

  5. #50

    russdev's Avatar
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    @beeswax

    True but most companies just join your county pension scheme as it is easier for them. So then it continues in normal way...

    Russ

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by psydii
    Second part, your pension is protected by law under TUPE.

    Quote Originally Posted by beeswax
    I'm still looking for the relevant doc, but since April 2007, once you cease to be employed by the LA, your LA pension is frozen. However, the company which is contracted to employ you has to provide a pension scheme of similar value.
    The transferee employer (new employer) must offer a comparable pension and match employee contributions upto 6%. By agreement, you may be able to transfer your existing pension fund to the new employer but it's important to obtain a quotation of its value within the new scheme. The old pension scheme ends and the new pension starts at the date of transfer.

    TUPE isn't all bad - it's designed to protect workers rights in event of a transfer and it's better than them saying 'you're sacked and get no pension' - of course, if we do get a change of government we may just loose these rights.

  7. #52
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas


    Quote Originally Posted by Grommit
    I was there when they said "All ICT is to be taken over and you will be assimilated"
    Have gone through the BSF process ?
    And then been TUPEd and sacked by the new Overlords ?

    .
    I was lucky and was kept on in another role.....

    But the 3 other schools around us the Network Managers left because they did not want to be downgraded to Technicians and were furious at losing their Networks that they had built and maintained.. as well as losing all control of the Network and doing anything intrestingly Technical....

    No more writing funky VB Scripts..... No more working to get the "damn" server back up.....


    They assisted in the BSF at the beginning but the facts that they had no "real" future in the finished Total Managed Service Product upset them and they decided they would go elsewhere..

    Fact... No matter what anyone says ALL the Servers will be out of any on site technicans control they will be out of bounds execpt for remote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pottsey
    Back to TUPE for a second

    Pinched from a website:
    "....
    dismissal for a reason connected with the transfer of a business or undertaking is automatically unfair unless the employer can show that the reason was "an economic, technical or organisational reason entailing changes in the workforce" (reg 8(1) and (2) of the TUPE regulations, SI 1981/1794
    ....."

    I'm looking a proposal right now that reduces my teams' number by half.
    Are you saying here that everybody might not be TUPED ?

  8. #53

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    OK A quick note before going to bed (and up early to help with Exams download).

    I just want to clearly state my interest and opinion on BSF. I obviously have not made it clear in spite of talking about it on a number of threads, giving examples and reasons.

    BSF is unlikely to affect my school of other local schools for some time. PFI will not affect us either because of Academies and merged schools getting rebuilt.

    When it does arrive I am unlikely to be affected because I am Manglement. I may opt to move and take on a high position but that is unlikely. The Business Manager (the other Assistant Head who is not a teacher) will not get moved over so I won't. I won't want to either as a chunk of my work has nothing to do with ICT, but is PR and politics.

    Will the support team move? I seriously doubt it ... I will resist it because there would be no benefit at all for us.

    Do I know schools it will help? Yes. Would I recommend they go to a managed service? Yes ... but I think some of them should go to a managed service right now, even if it meant Capita dotICT taking complete control ... some are that poor.

    Am I pro or anti BSF? I am pro-BSf for the influx of money for new buildings and facilities ... am I pro or anti Managed Services (and that is what this is all about)? I am neither. I can see to upsides and downsides.

    My main interest in all of this and why I am going to the meetings, speaking with the companies, trying to get some solid evidence about the supposed horror stories about contracts ... I get fed up with people stirring and not backing it up with anything other than opinion.

    I am also doing this as part of my work within the ICT Register and the SSAT. They want to keep as many people in schools informed about what to look out for as they can.

    Why am I doing it and not someone else? Because I am the one who got up off his backside and spoke with people. I am the one who had a good long chat with Steve Moss from PfS about it all and who has been round looking at Academies and schools that have federated services.

    I am more than happy for others to work on this which is why these meetings are an open invite to EduGeek members. I am more than happy because a lot of this goes over and above what I am paid to do.

    If members are not happy with what they think is a 'pro-BSF' stance I am more than happy to scale the meetings down and do it as an invite only thing ... report it all back to others and take the EduGeek name away.

    I think this would be a bad thing. I am also more than happy to pass all of this onto any other member, give them all my contacts and any introductions that they require.

    So there we have it ... in spite of me saying I won't respond until the report is out on Friday I have posted ... but I truly do feel that some of the comments about my impartiality are being twisted.

    I just want to repeat one final thing.

    *I*, and no single person here, has the weight to stop BSF or the ICT development section of it. To do so will take legal or political work and I neither have the time, funds, contacts or influence to take that on even if I thought it would get anywhere. I truly do not believe this group does either ... if the unions are not getting together over it all what hope do we have.

    If people want to view it as damage limitation then feel free to. If people have information and evidence to help others then please share it, but please do not just say "tell them to go away" or "$company is lying to you and will change the rules in spite of what is in a contract with hefty legal penalties on it or what the law actually says".

    Yes ... it is late ... this is a bit of a rant ... tomorrow I might add something a little bit more toned down once others have amended the draft report ... I might even apologise for the tone ... this is as close to flaming as I get now and I am out of practice.

    Night all.

  9. #54

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    I didn't see that as flaming at all Tony!

    I think it is good that someone like yourself can get in there on our behalf and see what's really going on. Now I would *love* to come along to the meetings myself, but I have to say that I honestly don't have the time! So it's great that by proxy you are there and feeding the information back to us (no doubt out of your own time too).

    The report is going to be interesting to say the least.

    Now I am off to nurse a poorly tummy...had a nice meal out on Sunday that tuned out to be not so nice

    Chicken...tikka...yuck!

    Paul

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Well, after a little chat with my Bursar this afternoon, I realise she knows as little about BSF as I thought I did. She was not aware that "Managed Services" would be part of a BSF bid....

    Riiighht....

    This worries me, how can she not know this ? She did say that there was no way that The Governers or the SLT would approve of going over to BSF.

    She seemed to think that there were two schemes going around, the managed services PFI scheme, and a BSF rebuild the buildings scheme.


    And our LA are just as disorganised, I suspect they know very little about what is happening in their Pathfinder school... maybe when that is finished they might realise.



    I was really only chatting, because I'm trying to worm my way into a payrise...

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by User3204
    Well, after a little chat with my Bursar this afternoon, I realise she knows as little about BSF as I thought I did. She was not aware that "Managed Services" would be part of a BSF bid....

    Riiighht....

    This worries me, how can she not know this ? She did say that there was no way that The Governers or the SLT would approve of going over to BSF.
    Thats what one of our Schools said at the start to keep their fantastic ICT manager and ICT staff in-house..

    Untill they relised they would lose £1.5 million in ICT funding....

    They quickly jumped on board the BSF/PFI ship..

  12. #57


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    Re: BSF Meeting

    When I quizzed out HT about BSF he tried explaining how BSF was designed give the school more choice, that managed service wasn't mandatory etc. I soon realised I had already read more about BSF than he had.

    Remember that even if LA's/SMT do know exactly what's going on they are not necessarily going keep the likes of us informed. They need to keep the service running up until it's transferred, if we all run off and get jobs in industry it's not going to help the school much.

  13. #58
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Quote Originally Posted by russdev
    3) Work with bsf suppliers, psf, lea's, slt, schools get all facts work out where I can influence the process. Have open dialogue on all sides - Outcome There is chance I can make difference make sure that either not tuped or if tuped that protection in place so me as a network manager doesn't become a 'toner changer'..
    This still has the same outcome as all your other options - LEA tupe everyone across and you have the worse case.

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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Tony - I'll happily come along to one of these meetings.

    From what I can see it's a veritable government steamroller and there's not a lot that can be achieved by meeting people - but I'll keep an open mind on that. It seems if you're not in the upper echelons of school management (heaven forbid ) then you can wave goodbye to autonomy which, to my mind, is one of the perks of being a School ICT bod.

    But regardless, I'd be interested in meeting the protagonists!

  15. #60
    richard
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    Re: BSF Meeting

    Well I have decided after a lot of thought that I will be leaving education within the next 12-18 months. After all the crap I have been through with one of my schools and the threat of BSF. I have decided that I cannot put up with all the stress and aggro. Whether I stay in IT at all remains to be seen.

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