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Blue Skies Thread, Chrome will bring about the ICT revolution in schools in General; Originally Posted by somabc Just got a message from the Editor at IDG telling me off for quoting the article ...
  1. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by somabc View Post
    Just got a message from the Editor at IDG telling me off for quoting the article . . unusual!
    They must have decided their own article was a load of bobbins

  2. #17

    AngryTechnician's Avatar
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    I'm sure their advertisers won't mind if you don't send any more traffic their way.

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    Just to respond to some of spannermans comments:
    Forget the rent period and price as is now. The easiest thing in the world for a mega corp is to pitch the price right..my post suggested the right price not the press quoted prices..we all know that the likes of Google and Microsoft for that matter could give it away free to education if they wanted to..and they just might
    No it's not, you are forgetting that to make hardware the company has to pay someone to physically manufacture the devices. Are you suggesting just for the UK Google are going to write off 200 million to provide education chrome netbooks? The can do it with software as there are just costs involved in development/support/distribution, not high per unit costs.

    You just can not say that any change means that it will simply cost more...the logical corollary of this (oft repeated) assertion about any change is that the only 'solution' is a tweak of the status quo...sorry you of course CAN keep saying just that but fewer are listenng.
    No, the change has to be costed properly, within budget and of a benefit to drive eductaion forward within the school. We do absolutely loads of innovative stuff with IT within our school, some using open source, some using the cloud, some using proprietory software, some using mobile devices etc etc. We COULD rip all this out, buy in chromebooks and have a very limited vision of IT use based around some web apps and Googles corporate cloud, but that just limits our flexibility and choisce for students/teachers. Our vision encompasses a broad range of IT experiences, we don't want to limit it to any single corporates vision of IT, be that Apple, Google, Microsoft, that's not what education should be about.


    You may be right and at the price you say I think it's too much to make th echanges happen..but the edu prize is such a big one maybe with gov help?
    Maybe in the past under Labour in the boom years if Google made a few contributions to party funds...

  4. Thanks to teejay from:

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    can you store a local version your cloud as im not sure id be happy storing potentially sensative data somewhere i have no control over (if sony can be hacked it can happen to google) it would also mean it should be quicker to access stuff

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    I dont think the current "business" model is right for education IT. I think ipads/chomebooks/whateverthenextoneis is a more forward thinking model that is more suited. Are the current offerings the answer, who knows only time will tell. I'd be very interested in getting my hands on one when it comes out. We used very very little software that isn't already browser based, you'd never dream of replacing the Media suite with these so specialist software is removed from the argument.

    Will Google create an ICT revolution, doubt it, will Apple create an ICT revolution, doubt it.... but i do believe ICT in schools needs to change, what to is the question!

    Sted... if Sony can be hacked so can you. The idea that data held in the cloud is less secure than being held onsite i find amazing. Are your security systems better than Sony, Google or any other company you wish to name? Yes higher profile but not less secure.

    Infrastructure is obviously key to this and i do not believe for 1 moment that it is in place here or in the majority of schools.

    Well thats my thoughts anyway...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.81 View Post
    Sted... if Sony can be hacked so can you. The idea that data held in the cloud is less secure than being held onsite i find amazing. Are your security systems better than Sony, Google or any other company you wish to name? Yes higher profile but not less secure.
    point taken but id wager its more worth someones time to hack google than find a school system and hack it

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    Quote Originally Posted by sted View Post
    point taken but id wager its more worth someones time to hack google than find a school system and hack it
    Oh i completely agree, a large company is a more interesting target for someone to hack over us small schools, but i dont think the system i have in school is in the same league when it comes to how secure it is.

  9. #23

    SYNACK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave.81 View Post
    Sted... if Sony can be hacked so can you. The idea that data held in the cloud is less secure than being held onsite i find amazing. Are your security systems better than Sony, Google or any other company you wish to name? Yes higher profile but not less secure.

    Infrastructure is obviously key to this and i do not believe for 1 moment that it is in place here or in the majority of schools.

    Well thats my thoughts anyway...
    Sony made idiot decisions like using three year old versions of web server software, something that can easily be bettered locally. I do find the contention that computers are secure absurd though, just look at the pawn to own competiton and how the supposedly secure Apple system was the first to be hacked each time for the last several years. It is largely not about what has an open door to exploitation and does is not, it is about who is knocking on those doors and the skilled types are likely to be knocking on much bigger and shinier doors than the skoady 15 year old door of some random school.

    The cloud is still an undefined risk, just look at the Amazon outage, it is not some sort of IT perfection, its just another system.

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    Anything connected to the internet is in-secure. I've not got mis-givings about that.

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    I just don't see how these will be useful to a school at the moment. Ok, if you are a *big* school, then you may find some use for them, but if you're a smaller school (say, up to 600 kids), then they make no sense.

    As I've said before, we have various pieces of software which place demands on what we provide.

    DT: Systems and control
    Art: Photoshop
    ICT: Dreamweaver/Fireworks, Audacity.
    English/French: USB microphones

    The list goes on. Each department doesn't have its own ICT provision, they make use of the shared suites we have. So, the machines have to be capable of doing all the specialist stuff, as well as the 'web based' or 'office' stuff.

    These sort of machines would mean we'd have to maintain a stock of machines for all the existing stuff, and also maintain these machines too. Just not feasible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I just don't see how these will be useful to a school at the moment. , the machines have to be capable of doing all the specialist stuff, as well as the 'web based' or 'office' stuff.

    These sort of machines would mean we'd have to maintain a stock of machines for all the existing stuff, and also maintain these machines too. Just not feasible.
    I was going to reply to david81 (above) who (like so many now) knows one thing and that is the current model has to change..the details are to be worked out my suggestions are just one of the pot...and then I read your post which translates as..

    .." this is how it is, no matter how esoteric, expensive and/or outdated the app, we must keep them going..any change just means more new stuff'!!


    Economic reality? Cuts? Just how rich are you?

    and... Dreamweaver as good school software, please God who is still around dumb enough to pay web designers who insist on their Dreamweaver CSSs as 'essential' to the web site you pay for..10 years ago ok but now?..soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spannerman2 View Post
    .soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.
    i totally agree. when student x goes for a job in graphic design, im pretty sure most graphic designers now will ask if they have MS paint or google online paint experience.

    i mean who needs experience with higher end software? why bother with office suites, why not just give them chalk and slate, most offices now don't want people with microsoft word experience, just the ability to jab a piece of chalk into that slate thingy and make pretty pictures


    are you seriously saying that we should not buy/use software that caters to a specific area or need?

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    As above, the pupils need experience with software they will be using in a work / home environment.

    Media studies and Drama use video editing software
    ICT use mediator, Serif, audacity and software like Alice
    MFL use a specialist classroom control suite (sanako) and various recording software
    Art use Adobe software ( photoshop /flash )
    DT use CAD software

    plus all the education software bought over the years for various departments used once a year for task x, y or z

    I can only see it being used effectively in 1 or 2 departments, or mobile classrooms. Most of the time we get asked to install additional software on the mobile classrooms anyway which would be a none starter with this.

  15. #29

    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spannerman2 View Post
    I was going to reply to david81 (above) who (like so many now) knows one thing and that is the current model has to change..the details are to be worked out my suggestions are just one of the pot...and then I read your post which translates as..

    .." this is how it is, no matter how esoteric, expensive and/or outdated the app, we must keep them going..any change just means more new stuff'!!


    Economic reality? Cuts? Just how rich are you?

    and... Dreamweaver as good school software, please God who is still around dumb enough to pay web designers who insist on their Dreamweaver CSSs as 'essential' to the web site you pay for..10 years ago ok but now?..soon you'll be citing Photoshop as a career maker for budding graphics kids.
    Sorry but you simply have no idea what its like working in a school *now*. Sure you may have experienced it at one point in your career, but things have changed. Schemes of work are set and people teach to them. It is unfair and unreasonable to expect teachers to have to replace something they've been teaching for 10 years simply because a new fad has arrived.

    Sure, things need to change to become more sustainable but this does not mean that we should all scrap our current systems and move to 'the cloud' (which has been shown to be unreliable when looking at the downtime for Amazon, and for the Microsoft service outage recently).

    What about those of us who are moving to a sustainable solution based on thin clients in some areas and maintaining fat clients in others. A mixed model, rather than trying to force a 'one size fits all' model on everyone (something which BSF tried to do, and failed at).

    The economic reality is that retraining all staff to move to an entirely different system to the one they've been using for a decade, and different from the one new teachers are taught using at university, and then expecting them to be able to teach it now is prohibitively expensive. We rolled out SIMS.net to staff about 4 years ago, and we've only just this year finished the series of insets training them how to use what they need to. Can you imagine how long it would take to get rid of all the different software we use now??

    Also, you ignored the aspects about hardware - control for example. Electronic voting systems. Microphones etc... How do these fit into your cloud future?

    You seem to think I'm stuck in the mud, but I'm all for modernising things. However, there's change for reason and change simply because its new - the latter is what is being proposed here and I just don't see the advantages!

  16. 3 Thanks to localzuk:

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  17. #30

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    Maybe we are different being an Independent but i know our schemes of work can change yearly with exam boards changing things. We do not have stacks of special software, infact i can only name 1 across the departments that is used. We have Macromedia MX installed but is not need by any subjects, not even ICT.

    I agree that a 'one size fits all' approach is not going to work, the right tool for the right job is key. But to through out new ideas because it wont fit all is wrong as well. I can see our IT suites replaced with this or something similar and see no effect on the teaching, IF the correct infrastructure (net connection) was in place.

    Electronic voting systems, now there is a waste of money, whats wrong with a show of hands? But cloud based use a shared spreadsheet or questionnaire not difficult. Mic's it's a netbook surely it'll have them built in seen they come with a webcam. Control of hardware, not sure which area of control you mean, but proxy settings, Homepages, default app's, blocked app's are all controlled via google apps management console for the devices.

    I'm not saying these are the answer to future IT in schools but if new things are not discussed then we'll still be sat here in another 10 years saying we cant change for the same reason's that are being stated now, surely?

    I'm not sure if people remember but last Sept there was a post about a school in Scotland who went 1:1 with the iPad's and did away with their IT suites, i remember the posts about how it would be a disaster, would never work and teaching would suffer etc etc etc... i've been following the blog of the guy who did it and it appears to have been a great success and not just in his opinion. I'm not saying this is the way forward for everywhere but it shows that until these things are tested we just dont know what is best.
    Last edited by dave.81; 27th May 2011 at 10:30 AM.

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