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Blue Skies Thread, Chrome will bring about the ICT revolution in schools in General; I'm having 10 delivered today as a trial to look at purchasing some for our Junior School to replace netbooks ...
  1. #136

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    I'm having 10 delivered today as a trial to look at purchasing some for our Junior School to replace netbooks that were stolen. They only used the netbooks as web browsers and were using Google Apps in place of Office anyway so looking forward to testing them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arthur View Post
    I don't think this number is accurate. 1% of the market, which I think is from web usage statistics certainly is a lot more than 500,000. The figures come from a dodgy Taiwanese website called Digitimes which appears to be running an anti-Chromebook PR campaign with Microsoft's PR department. Digitimes cooks up some low Chromebook sales figures without any facts to back it up, and then it appears quoted by lots of other sites within a very short time as fact - seemingly PR guys (I can guess who) have pushed out to a lot of websites in a very short period of time. The 500,000 number looks like Acer's C7 sales over the last 4 months based on 5% of the notebooks Acer has sold. Acer says 5-10% which I taker to mean it started at 5% of Acers notebook sales when supply was limited and increased now to 10%. This figure excludes Samsung Chromebook retail sales which are much higher, given that it is number 1 in the Amazon list - above Acer's C7. The Acer sales, the Samsung Amazon and Curry's sales all exclude business sales and educational sales which is the major target for Chromebooks. This is business and education sales are made directly to the end user rather than through Amazon, PC World or other retail outlets. Acer's C7 is pretty useless for education because of its short battery life, so Acers current total sale numbers don't include education. Currys/PC World also announced that Chromebooks account for 10% of all their computer sales in UK currently - that is without advertising, and without the most popular Chromebook models and staff who know anything about it being available at most stores, which is amazing. I think the real sales figures would be higher than 1.5 million in the last 100 days given all this.

    in July 2011 Digitimes claimed that only 20,000-30,000 of the first version of the Chromebook had been sold in 2011. In that case, Digitimes seems to have reported the 25,000 Acer Chromebooks Acer sold in the first two weeks of availability after its delayed entry as the total number of Chromebooks sold in 2011. Again it was widely syndicated widely to other websites in a very short time. Again in summer 2012 it was claimed 300,000 Chromebooks had been sold. How was this number arrived at? Take Digitimes figure of 25,000 sold by Acer in the first two weeks of limited supply, assume that was for a month ignoring the fact that it shipped two weeks late, ignore Samsung sales which were greater and had been taking place for some time before Acer had started shipping, and ignore the education market sales which was the main sales push at the time, and multiply it by 12 for 12 months. Voila you have 300,000. Now it is claimed that despite a big price drop and reported 700% increase in Chromebook sales based on web browser ID string tracking, Chromebooks are actually selling slower with only 500,000 sold over the last two years. The figures simply don't add up!

    This latest Digitimes "report" looks like a repeat of the "independent" report plus PR push strategy being played by a rival who stands to lose market share if the Chromebook takes off - presumably in an attempt to prevent more OEMs and developers from jumping on the Chromebook bandwagon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zag View Post
    Are there any downsides?
    Dont know if anyone has realised or mentioned that anything Google releases is just going to be a data mining tool, they are not doing anything for any other reason.

    As i keep telling people who use facebook/twitter or social media in general...youre giving your information away for free, why?

    And once its out there you cant get it back, and it can also be used against you.

    Chrome and Chromebook to me are two things i will stay away from and advising others to do the same

    Google just wants your information, if they have to lull you into giving it away, then a really cheap netbook is, for them, a laughably cheap option to do so, and to continue to exploit that information for the rest of your life.

  4. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    Dont know if anyone has realised or mentioned that anything Google releases is just going to be a data mining tool, they are not doing anything for any other reason.

    As i keep telling people who use facebook/twitter or social media in general...youre giving your information away for free, why?

    And once its out there you cant get it back, and it can also be used against you.

    Chrome and Chromebook to me are two things i will stay away from and advising others to do the same

    Google just wants your information, if they have to lull you into giving it away, then a really cheap netbook is, for them, a laughably cheap option to do so, and to continue to exploit that information for the rest of your life.
    Microsoft wants your information too. As do Apple. Basically, pick your poison.

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    Love a good giggle in the morning, surely every company is digging for information in one way or another from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    Dont know if anyone has realised or mentioned that anything Google releases is just going to be a data mining tool, they are not doing anything for any other reason.

    As i keep telling people who use facebook/twitter or social media in general...youre giving your information away for free, why?

    And once its out there you cant get it back, and it can also be used against you.

    Chrome and Chromebook to me are two things i will stay away from and advising others to do the same

    Google just wants your information, if they have to lull you into giving it away, then a really cheap netbook is, for them, a laughably cheap option to do so, and to continue to exploit that information for the rest of your life.

  6. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    Microsoft wants your information too. As do Apple. Basically, pick your poison.
    Quote Originally Posted by dave.81 View Post
    Love a good giggle in the morning, surely every company is digging for information in one way or another from you.
    Giggle you might, and i might also point out that Apple's & Microsoft's main product isnt a search engine, Google's is....in fact all Google's products rely on making use of and linking data together....

    But if you want to give your data away free, well thats your mistake to make.....

    Also, recently the number of exploits in Chrome were like 7 times those of IE in the same period (and im not a fanboy of any particular company, or browser - i dont use IE myself), so not only is Google exploiting your data, they are leaving you open to having it exploited by 3rd parties, notably hackers...

    But like i said, its your mistake to make....

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    Giggle you might, and i might also point out that Apple's & Microsoft's main product isnt a search engine, Google's is....in fact all Google's products rely on making use of and linking data together....

    But if you want to give your data away free, well thats your mistake to make.....

    Also, recently the number of exploits in Chrome were like 7 times those of IE in the same period (and im not a fanboy of any particular company, or browser - i dont use IE myself), so not only is Google exploiting your data, they are leaving you open to having it exploited by 3rd parties, notably hackers...

    But like i said, its your mistake to make....
    Doesn't the information they take from me and everyone else just make my searching experience better/easier/quicker? Everyone wins in a round about way.

  8. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    Giggle you might, and i might also point out that Apple's & Microsoft's main product isnt a search engine, Google's is....in fact all Google's products rely on making use of and linking data together....
    This is where you show a level of naivety in my view. All companies who collect data will make use of that data. Whether or not it is their primary business is somewhat irrelevant.

    But if you want to give your data away free, well thats your mistake to make.....
    It isn't free - we're getting products and services in return.

    Also, recently the number of exploits in Chrome were like 7 times those of IE in the same period (and im not a fanboy of any particular company, or browser - i dont use IE myself), so not only is Google exploiting your data, they are leaving you open to having it exploited by 3rd parties, notably hackers...
    True, but you have to take a larger aspect of IE into consideration - IE is forced to be run on Windows. You also should take into account that Apps is an Office program too. If you take all those aspects into account, Google is overall more secure than Microsoft. Security is a complex matter that looking at a single aspect (number of exploits) is somewhat misleading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben604 View Post
    Doesn't the information they take from me and everyone else just make my searching experience better/easier/quicker? Everyone wins in a round about way.
    Oh theyre quite welcome to use the words i type in the search box, and yes that is supposed to make it easier and quicker and more relevant for future searches. I consider that for want of a better term, part of the terms and conditions of use, and implied by hitting the search button.....

    What im talking about is the data mining they do of other data that you havent agreed to let them a) access or b) use

    Dont know how many times ive had to answer the same question from new users of gmail..."Why is google suggesting that i might like to add these people, some of whom i havent spoken to in over a decade to my contacts or chat or google+". Thats just the tip of the obtrusiveness....that comes from mining your data.

    Honestly nothing gives me the willies quite like things the Chromebook, its a recipe for surrendering your data security. I cant see why people are so willing to do so like its no big deal.

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    Apps domains don't make suggestions for its users, or even display adverts.

  11. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    This is where you show a level of naivety in my view. All companies who collect data will make use of that data. Whether or not it is their primary business is somewhat irrelevant.



    It isn't free - we're getting products and services in return.



    True, but you have to take a larger aspect of IE into consideration - IE is forced to be run on Windows. You also should take into account that Apps is an Office program too. If you take all those aspects into account, Google is overall more secure than Microsoft. Security is a complex matter that looking at a single aspect (number of exploits) is somewhat misleading.
    I think its hilarious that you think I'M naive

    Lets reconvene in say a decade and see who was right.....

    And i think it is relevant whether its their primary business, it couldnt be more central to the argument

    And ill take Microsoft security, which has improved from being a joke to improving no end especially since the release of Windows 7, over Googles anyday. Like i said, Chrome had 7 times the number of exploits compared to IE last year. If youre going to tell me that you would rather use Chrome or consider it equally secure to IE, then i hope youre not in charge of anything more than your home PC.

    Its not like my 3 decades of experience or managing 43 servers and about 2200 desktops currently mean anything....

    If you want to just give away your data and live in some delusional world where the almighty google is a benevolent entity, then you go ahead.

    I can see im wasting my time here.
    Last edited by stylemessiah; 22nd March 2013 at 12:03 PM.

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    I'm not too worried that Google and Microsoft are data mining little Jimmy's homework.
    They're offering free services for schools for product placement. Nothing more. MS have been doing it for years by discounting software for schools.

  14. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    I'm not too worried that Google and Microsoft are data mining little Jimmy's homework.
    They're offering free services for schools for product placement. Nothing more. MS have been doing it for years by discounting software for schools.
    I have some of the same concerns, there is a big difference between locally hosted software that you have administrative control over and the system, storeage and software being totally controlled by the external provider. I always like to keep a plan B in reserve for if and when these providers decide to change what they offer or how they offer it.

    It's not so much the homework that is a concern but if you put your admin services and email on it there is a much higher risk of personal information flowing over it. I also trust MS much more than Google when it comes to data, their gear gets attacked by haters every second of the day and there core business is not data mining. Google has its share of people after it too and this has resulted in various gmail users being detained in China, their initial cloud stuff leaked like a sive when they accidently turned on searching for several entire university domains.

    All providers are going to have issues but I'd rather not end up on the wrong of the search algorythm.
    Last edited by SYNACK; 22nd March 2013 at 12:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberNerd View Post
    I'm not too worried that Google and Microsoft are data mining little Jimmy's homework.
    They're offering free services for schools for product placement. Nothing more. MS have been doing it for years by discounting software for schools.
    So are you going to make Little Jimmy fully aware that his data might be subject to collection by Google when you let him use their products or hand him a chromebook. I wonder if you might want think of the possible legal ramifications of acting so blaise about this.

    For the record, at the schools i admin, not even staff have access to webmail, because of the possible legal issues that they could expose the school to, and yet your attitude is a free for all and no questions asked....

    And please tell me exactly how Microsoft have been data mining students data?

    Oh enough, honestly im tired of trying to highlight issues which i thin are valid to people who would rather bury their heads in sand.
    Last edited by stylemessiah; 22nd March 2013 at 12:12 PM.

  16. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    I think its hilarious that you think I'M naive

    Lets reconvene in say a decade and see who was right.....

    And i think it is relevant whether its their primary business, it couldnt be more central to the argument

    And ill take Microsoft security, which has improved from being a joke to improving no end especially since the release of Windows 7, over Googles anyday. Like i said, Chrome had 7 times the number of exploits compared to IE last year. If youre going to tell me that you would rather use Chrome or consider it equally secure to IE, then i hope youre not in charge of anything more than your home PC.

    Its not like my 3 decades of experience or managing 43 servers currently mean anything....

    If you want to just give away your data and live in some delusional world where the almighty google is a benevolent entity, then you go ahead.

    I can see im wasting my time here.
    Again, you're isolating 'IE' and 'Chrome'. IE requires Windows. IE doesn't include Flash by default, Chrome does (so that increases exploits). If you take into account Windows exploits too, IE suddenly shoots up the ranks. If you run a Chromebook, you're running on Linux. Ok, there's a massive amount of variability in Linux distros, but security vulnerabilities in the base OS are significantly less than Windows out of the box.

    Yes, Microsoft have improved their record, but don't be lulled into a false sense of security simply because they have improved IE.

    Arguing that you have expertise on this because you have 30 years of experience is fine, but it could also be argued that you're 'set in your ways' due to it. It also screams 'arrogance' to me personally, but hey, your experience is definitely worth listening to, but I'll balance it against my own.

    Remember, everything everyone does on a computer is a balancing act between security, functionality and cost. Chromebooks do not suffer from Windows vulnerabilities, or ActiveX, etc... They don't have to worry about any Windows malware etc... This may be down to there being less of them overall, but it is still an aspect of security you can take into account when doing your risk assessment. If we all just go for plain statistics about vulnerabilities, we wouldn't be using the internet at all.

    Also, again, we are not giving anything away for free. We are exchanging the rather minor data mining that Google can do with school computers for products and services.

    Quote Originally Posted by stylemessiah View Post
    So are you going to make Little Jimmy fully aware that his data might be subject to collection by Google when you let him use their products or hand him a chromebook. I wonder if you might want think of the possible legal ramifications of acting so blaise about this.

    For the record, at the schools i admin, not even staff have access to webmail, because of the possible legal issues that they could expose the school to, and yet your attitude is a free for all and no questions asked....

    And please tell me exactly how Microsoft have been data mining students data?

    Oh enough, honestly im tired of trying to highlight issues which i thin are valid to people who would rather bury their heads in sand.
    Why would you tell a child that a company has access to their data, outside of normal education about internet safety? Do we have to warn them when they use any software that reports back to its manufacturer? There's a helluva lot of it out there. Including Internet Explorer. You do realise that Microsoft offer such services to schools too? Office 365? Live@Edu or whatever its called now.

    You are making out that everyone is hanging their kids out to dry, and somehow implying that Microsoft are entirely innocent of it too.

    Not giving staff access to webmail? Well that depends on what your concerns are. Technological solutions to people problems are not solutions in my mind. They encourage places to bury their heads in the sand because they assume the technological solution will eliminate the potential issues.
    Last edited by localzuk; 22nd March 2013 at 12:15 PM.

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