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Blue Skies Thread, Understanding Students Who Were 'Born Digital' in General; Originally Posted by Jamo Its needed because its the foundation of our language. Forming the letters manually gives a much ...
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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    Its needed because its the foundation of our language. Forming the letters manually gives a much better understanding as you are taught them over and over. Pressing the E key on the keyboard and making the phonetic sound just doesn't cut it imho. It also re-enforces a very important skill which is hand eye coordination.

    To be quite honest I am against silly gimmick technology in schools. I am very much for, though, teaching people how to use the internet and computers well, showing them how to get information from the web and making sure they understand that not all of Wikipedia is gospel!
    I disagree on your first point. The foundation of our language is the spoken word, not the written word. Humans were talking way before writing! Not to mention, if we focus on the beginnings of things - why aren't we all taught how to kill animals for food? Meat is the foundation of the human diet, after all... Hand-eye co-ordination is also taught by operating a computer, and through sports (sports would actually be a better area to teach it IMO, along with performing arts).

    Also, what you see as a gimmick might actually be the beginnings of some revolution in life. I'm sure many people thought many aspects of our normal lives now were gimmicks when they were introduced.

    If we don't teach new things, how are we expected to progress as a people? Limiting the use of tech to 'how to use the internet and computers well' is a little short-sighted isn't it? Let's not forget - when computers came about, they were seen as a device of limited use and IBM didn't expect them to end up in people's homes and everyday lives.

    Your last comment regarding Wikipedia should apply to all sources, not just Wikipedia. The basis for researching something is comparing and contrasting different sources, to ensure they match up etc... Before Wikipedia, written encyclopaedias were commonly wrong, as were books and magazines also...

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    I think that there is a general deterioration in the English language as a whole. I'm not saying that having handwriting lessons would change that on it's own, but would it be a start? There is so much that is "mangled" in spoken English, that when it's put down on paper (or in "e-form" come to that) it bears no resemblance to what it started life as. As an example:
    "Should of" is very often written instead of what it actually should be - "Should HAVE"
    Is the loss of handwriting lessons also the loss of learning express oneself correctly in writing??

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    I disagree on your first point. The foundation of our language is the spoken word, not the written word. Humans were talking way before writing! Not to mention, if we focus on the beginnings of things - why aren't we all taught how to kill animals for food? Meat is the foundation of the human diet, after all... Hand-eye co-ordination is also taught by operating a computer, and through sports (sports would actually be a better area to teach it IMO, along with performing arts).

    Also, what you see as a gimmick might actually be the beginnings of some revolution in life. I'm sure many people thought many aspects of our normal lives now were gimmicks when they were introduced.

    If we don't teach new things, how are we expected to progress as a people? Limiting the use of tech to 'how to use the internet and computers well' is a little short-sighted isn't it? Let's not forget - when computers came about, they were seen as a device of limited use and IBM didn't expect them to end up in people's homes and everyday lives.

    Your last comment regarding Wikipedia should apply to all sources, not just Wikipedia. The basis for researching something is comparing and contrasting different sources, to ensure they match up etc... Before Wikipedia, written encyclopaedias were commonly wrong, as were books and magazines also...
    I don't consider an electronic 'Who wants to be a millionaire' style voting system a 'new' way to teach something. Gimmick is definitely the word I would use there.

    We aren't taught to kill animals for food because we live in a society. Each person does their own tasks, but we ALL talk and write stuff down!

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    Quote Originally Posted by solitaire89 View Post
    I think that there is a general deterioration in the English language as a whole. I'm not saying that having handwriting lessons would change that on it's own, but would it be a start? There is so much that is "mangled" in spoken English, that when it's put down on paper (or in "e-form" come to that) it bears no resemblance to what it started life as. As an example:
    "Should of" is very often written instead of what it actually should be - "Should HAVE"
    Is the loss of handwriting lessons also the loss of learning express oneself correctly in writing??
    Damn short hand! It comes from writing should've and could've which when spoken are pronounced very similar. Now if only people wrote things down still.....

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitaire89 View Post
    I think that there is a general deterioration in the English language as a whole. I'm not saying that having handwriting lessons would change that on it's own, but would it be a start? There is so much that is "mangled" in spoken English, that when it's put down on paper (or in "e-form" come to that) it bears no resemblance to what it started life as. As an example:
    "Should of" is very often written instead of what it actually should be - "Should HAVE"
    Is the loss of handwriting lessons also the loss of learning express oneself correctly in writing??
    What does that matter? Languages evolve... Otherwise we'd all be speaking like Chaucer. You're indicating you prefer linguistic prescription rather than linguistic description - which is currently how our language works, and how all academic linguistic research is carried out.

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    I think this may be reffering to the txt spk whre we try 2 fit as mny wrds as we can in2 r 180 letr limit......

    It really annoys me when people post status updates on facebutt like that.

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    localzuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    I don't consider an electronic 'Who wants to be a millionaire' style voting system a 'new' way to teach something. Gimmick is definitely the word I would use there.

    We aren't taught to kill animals for food because we live in a society. Each person does their own tasks, but we ALL talk and write stuff down!
    And we all eat... Regarding voting systems, maybe you see it as a gimmick, but consider their usefulness when combined with other tools. Imagine, you're a GCSE student, you have to write a report on your classmate's views on a proposed bypass - and you're going to do this via a multiple choice questionnaire. Traditionally, this would involve the pupil writing the questions, printing them off, handing them out, collecting them back in and then manually entering all the results in a spreadsheet and then analysing them in order to create graphs etc...

    With a e-voting system this could be done automatically for the pupil. They would be able to set up their questions, hand out the remotes and then go through the questions on the board. The data is instantly there for them, and with many such systems, can produce the graphs straight off. Saving the pupil a fair amount of work.

    When you try to isolate a single technology and think of a use for it, you will always come up against the 'but what use does it have really?' question. When you combine it with other tools and ideas, that is when you realise its worth.

    Take the e-voting system to the next level. I know there's a lot of discussion about the usefulness of iphones for all pupils etc... around the country, but what if this was one of the applications built into it? On its own, the iphone looks like a gimmick, but add all the potential tools that schools want in to the device and you have a very useful tool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    I think this may be reffering to the txt spk whre we try 2 fit as mny wrds as we can in2 r 180 letr limit......

    It really annoys me when people post status updates on facebutt like that.
    But I could read what you said there, so what's the problem?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    I think this may be reffering to the txt spk whre we try 2 fit as mny wrds as we can in2 r 180 letr limit......

    It really annoys me when people post status updates on facebutt like that.
    again spelling is constantly changing and some txt speak does make more sense than the traditional spelling which in the case of certain word makes no sense knight way does it still have a k when its no longer pronounced?

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    What does that matter? Languages evolve... Otherwise we'd all be speaking like Chaucer. You're indicating you prefer linguistic prescription rather than linguistic description - which is currently how our language works, and how all academic linguistic research is carried out.
    But when it changes the meaning of what is being said? I'll accept that languages will evolve, but to use that as an excuse to be lazy? I worry that I've read science based final year uni dissertations, where there are so many mistakes that the entire context has been changed entrely. Half the time I wonder if it is because people don't read what they've written to see if it actually makes sense.
    Let's face it, I'm sure we will all have read things where we've had to re-read it because the grammar changes the context of the piece entirely. At this point please feel free to insert the quotation about the panda.
    What I'm trying to say in nut shell is that standards are falling. The standard of the work produced by children today is certainly of a much lower standard than when I was at school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solitaire89 View Post
    What I'm trying to say in nut shell is that standards are falling. The standard of the work produced by children today is certainly of a much lower standard than when I was at school.
    People always say this but there is never any evidence to back it up. My grand parents used to say it about my dad's school life. My parents said it about my school life. Now people my age are saying it about todays school kids. I'd love to see some evidence of it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by localzuk View Post
    People always say this but there is never any evidence to back it up. My grand parents used to say it about my dad's school life. My parents said it about my school life. Now people my age are saying it about todays school kids. I'd love to see some evidence of it though.
    I beg to differ, there may be no scientific evidence to prove it (how would you go about it?), but when I look at my exercise books that I found in the loft during my recent move, kids' work today is not a patch on it, and I wasn't one of the best in the class by a long way
    I can see that we're not going to agree though, so call it quits and we'll both stick to own opinions?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamo View Post
    I think this may be reffering to the txt spk whre we try 2 fit as mny wrds as we can in2 r 180 letr limit......

    It really annoys me when people post status updates on facebutt like that.
    me too, i dont mind it in text messages because it does mean you can fit more into the limit, but on facebook or in an IM convo you dont need it. It does seem to be gettnig better tho, now people are getting smart phones/touch screen phones with a full QWERTY keyboard they are begging to type out the whole word.

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    I hate it when you get informed little johnny is a computer wizard because he uses Facebook...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_guy View Post
    I hate it when you get informed little johnny is a computer wizard because he uses Facebook...
    i did actually have a kid more computer literate than a teacher. I altered my printer script so that none of the class room machines got the PPA room printer (big oki printer that was eating toner at the time). a week later when i returned i noticed that one teacher was still prining off rubbish to it... it turns out that she had said "Wheres the printer gone?" inforont of her year 6 class and one of the kids had addedit back for her! hats off to the kid for knowing how to add a network printer... and how to work out the UNC path...

    suffice to say i very quickly removed the ability to add printers from everyone

    but the point here is that adding a printer is a pretty simple task, anyone can do it if you know the unc path etc...

    I think its more that most of the older generation think that this kind of thing is something that can only be done by someone whos trained in how to do it. There seems to be a culture of "Ignorance with no desire to learn" The only reason the kids seem very computer literate is that they are using them whilst thier brains are in learning mode so when they watch the techie come in and add a printer they remeber how it happened where as a teacher watching thinks "and now hes doing some thing that i dont need to see"
    Last edited by Arcath; 16th March 2010 at 12:00 PM. Reason: more info



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