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Blue Skies Thread, Bitcoin mining - using school computers in General; Allthough their backorders go back to june 2012. Ben...
  1. #16

    plexer's Avatar
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    Allthough their backorders go back to june 2012.

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    Although their backorders go back to June 2012.
    Yeah. Availability is a huge issue with the Bitcoin ASICs. If you were lucky enough to get one of the first Bitcoin mining units from Avalon you would now be making around $500 per day!!!

    Inside the Race to Build the World’s Fastest Bitcoin Miner Wired

    Those folks who've been lucky enough to get their hands on one of these early Avalon systems are cleaning up. Miner Jeff Garzik was the first person to take possession of a Avalon machine. Last year, he plunked down preorder money for a variety of custom ASIC rigs, including $1,300 for his Avalon system. “At the time, it was a very risky bet,” he said in an email interview. “None of the ASIC vendors were shipping, and all were funding their efforts through a pre-order model, akin to Kickstarter. This meant any buyer was paying months in advance for hardware that did not exist, and not even a guarantee of a refund upon failure.”

    But Garzik’s Avalon bet paid off. Big time. He got his system the end of January. Within 20 hours, it had earned him nearly 15 Bitcoins. Today it cranks out just under 4 Bitcoins per day. That’s about $500 at current Bitcoin exchange rates. “The first mover advantage is enormous,” Garzik said in an email interview.

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    plexer's Avatar
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    There's also cloud mining https://cloudhashing.com

    Ben

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    I bought 60 at 4.50 each. Got my stake back + 300 then sold a load more last week at 86 each. Kerching

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    @plexer. KnCMiner's Saturn and Jupiter Bitcoin ASIC miners are now available to order if you want one? They do 175GH/s and 350GH/s respectively, which is equivalent to approx. 245 or 490 AMD Radeon HD 7970 graphics cards!!!

    www.kncminer.com/categories/miners


  6. #21
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Oh god please don't invest in Bitcoin mining. You won't make your money back, and if you do it with school hardware you'll just end up wrecking the equipment and massively increase the electricity bill for the school too. Even if you do manage to make some coins, they won't hold their value for much longer because bitcoin is utterly useless as an actual currency. If you aren't looking to buy illegal drugs or questionable "adult" content, you will be hard pressed to find anywhere to actually spend your coins. Add on to that the fact that the value fluctuates by up to 50 per coin over a single day, and you have a completely unuseable currency in every way.

    If you decide to ignore all these facts and set up your equipment to mine anyway, good luck actually mining any coins. Graphics card mining is literally worthless now that people have ASIC machines up and running, as ASICs are capable of performing hashing calcuations thousands of times faster than graphics cards. Bitcoin mining works by increasing the difficulty of the next hash depending on the total hashing power of the network. This means that the more people there are mining, and the more powerful their mining rigs are, the less profitable mining is. You will not make money now unless you run an extremely large mining operation, and even then you won't make a great deal.

    Also lol at whoever linked BFL like they're some kind of legit mining company. I've been following them since they started pretty much, and they've had to change the spec on their boards about 10 times because they don't know how to properly build electronic systems. The units they're shipping now have a fraction of the originally promised power, and it could be up to two years before you even see the machine you've ordered because they have such slow production and such a massive backlog of orders. This is bad because it also means that by the time you receive your rig, hundreds of others will already have similarly powered rigs. This means that you will most likely never make a return on your investment, even if you mine 24/7.

    In conclusion I would like to remind you that bitcoin was never actually meant to be used as a currency. It was a proof-of-concept toy designed to show how a decentralized currency system could work, but it was never intended to be used as an actual currency. If you want to make money using a cryptocurrency system there are much easier ways to do it than mining bitcoins.

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    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    Bumping to say that the price per coin has dropped to $86 now on btc-e bitcoinity.org/markets It's still at about $94 on MtGox but that figure is largely irrellevant as MtGox have frozen withdrawals at the moment so you can't actually cash out.

    That's about $20 value lost on each coin over about 2 weeks. Who still thinks these are a good investment?

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    You could apply the same logic to trading any other kind of stock

    Pick a short period where MS or Apple stock drops and say 'Who still thinks these are a good investment?'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    That's about $20 value lost on each coin over about 2 weeks. Who still thinks these are a good investment?
    In the future, a single bit coin will either be worth a small fortune or nothing. Whether they are a good investment is, IMO a question of how you like your risk. As with all investment (AKA gambling), don't 'invest' more than you can afford to lose.

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    plexer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sdrawkcab View Post
    Oh god please don't invest in Bitcoin mining. You won't make your money back, and if you do it with school hardware you'll just end up wrecking the equipment and massively increase the electricity bill for the school too. Even if you do manage to make some coins, they won't hold their value for much longer because bitcoin is utterly useless as an actual currency. If you aren't looking to buy illegal drugs or questionable "adult" content, you will be hard pressed to find anywhere to actually spend your coins. Add on to that the fact that the value fluctuates by up to 50 per coin over a single day, and you have a completely unuseable currency in every way.
    Oh I've got a good place local to spend them Bitcoins for beer now in the UK - Mind Of The Geek

    Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeast View Post
    You could apply the same logic to trading any other kind of stock

    Pick a short period where MS or Apple stock drops and say 'Who still thinks these are a good investment?'

    They aren't anywhere near as volatile as BTC though, and are somewhat predictable by following company news etc. The value of BTC is tied to nothing, and on their own bitcoins are worthless - they only have value if someone is willing to exchange them for something which does have value. There's no reason to own a bitcoin other than to spend it on something else, and so few businesses accept btc that this generally doesn't happen. On top of that the protocol is actually massively limited (only handles 10 transactions per second) which makes it totally impractical to actually use for sales. Bitcoin has been kept afloat by media attention up until now, but with the MtGox withdrawal freeze and the slow decline in prices we've seen over the past month or so, I don't think it will recover. The reason it's rebounded from crashes in the past is because the price has always fallen so dramatically that it becomes attractive to buy in, which in turn causes a big spike in the price and generates more media attention. If the price continues to decline slowly like this it won't generate any headlines, and so the protocol will just die a slow and quiet death in obscurity.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcstru View Post
    In the future, a single bit coin will either be worth a small fortune or nothing. Whether they are a good investment is, IMO a question of how you like your risk. As with all investment (AKA gambling), don't 'invest' more than you can afford to lose.
    In the future a single coin will be worth nothing. Bitcoin value requires you to trade bitcoin for stuff, and people aren't actually doing that very much.

  12. #27
    Sdrawkcab's Avatar
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    This was a double post but @plexer replied while I was typing so I'll use this to reply to him too.. (apologies)

    Quote Originally Posted by plexer View Post
    Oh I've got a good place local to spend them Bitcoins for beer now in the UK - Mind Of The Geek

    Ben
    This is one pub out of how many thousands in this country? I like how they don't mention that customers paying with bitcoins would have to stand around for 10-30 minutes waiting for the transfer to be confirmed before they could actually have their beers. Or they could pay a bigger transaction fee to get their beer faster, I suppose.

    The thing is, the bitcoin protocol literally cannot work in any of these situations. If any significant volume of traders started accepting payments in btc, the network would grind to a halt and only the highest-fee transactions would be processed by miners. Do you find it annoying when you're paying with your debit card and you have to wait ~1 minute for the machine to dial the bank? Bitcoin delays would be ten times as long as that. This delay isn't something you can "fix" either, it's hard coded into the network.
    Last edited by Sdrawkcab; 2nd July 2013 at 11:23 AM.

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