AV and Multimedia Related Thread, Anyone setup a DMX stage lighting rig? in Technical; ...
28th February 2012, 12:25 PM #16
I did. Best I could get for 5 lamps, a desk, and the install, WITHOUT them doing the electrics, was £6000.
Originally Posted by Chris_Cook
Ive seen the PARs on CPC for say £40. God knows how they got it up to £6000.
I didnt realise that moving heads were so niggly.
28th February 2012, 03:12 PM #17
Did you get a breakdown of the individual costs for that quote? It doesn't sound completely unreasonable for a good job.
There are two routes to go with lighting, the cheap way, which will last 3-5 years and be rubbish. bulbs will blow, it won't really every do what you want, and it will look cheap. As someone else said, after a while it won't get used anymore, and will either have to be replaced or written off. Then there is the expensive proper way that gives you a good result.
The room looks quite tall relative to its width and length. I think having the lights at the roof height won't give a good result. A parcan at that height will light a good chunk of the hall, which might not be what you want. I suspect they might have included some rigging to drop the lamps down a meter or two.
They probably have included a higher end desk, and profiles and fresnels which are much more expensive than parcans (more like £200+ each). Dimmers are expensive too. Given that dimmers will probably be left on, and use lots of current, you don't want a cheap and nasty one. Most of these are designed for small temporary jobs, and only to be used for short periods of time.
I would really recommend not buying the very cheap lighting unless you have quite a bit of experience of using this sort of thing. Most of it really isn't worth the time. Cheap desks are horrible to use. Cheap lights tend to be quite dim. Cheap movers will be missing features like remote control of the focus and the beam size, which will effect the end result.
When doing lighting, its more important to think about what you are trying to achieve than what equipment your are buying. When you pay for the install, you are also paying for lots of experience that they have working in different venues and for different clients.
Thanks to Chris_Cook from:
mikkydoos (29th February 2012)
28th February 2012, 06:21 PM #18
- Rep Power
Please don't buy moving heads, particularly on a budget to do your front light. It's likely that the beam angle on them will be too narrow to sufficiently do your front wash. Again, it's unlikely they will have framing shutters so you will have spill on to your proscenium, no focus or frost, and if the colour wheel doesn't have colour correction everyone will look very cold from the discharge lamp (forgive me, I've just read some of this further up, so it's repetition). Cheap low end disco movers will also be loud. Used ETC Source 4 profiles are high quality and reasonably priced and will give you a more natural, controllable light for front light. Of course, if your school is minted and we are talking about using Martin TW1, or VL1000s, go for it!
For front light you want some good profiles, or fresnels with barndoors. Have a look here Used Lighting & Ex-Hire Stage Lighting Equipment Sales | usedlighting.co.uk under Conventional Fixtures. Most schools will find the Strand Quartet or CCT Minuette range suitable. I've used this company for work and out of school purchases. There's nothing really to go wrong in a 2nd hand fresnel, so it makes financial sense.
Dimming wise, Zero 88 Chillis are good reliable dimmers, available as hard wired. Or on the used route, Strand ACT6 or anything by Pulsar is rock solid.
You will need a structural engineer to assess the load bearing of your roof. DO NOT just hang stuff off girders and hope for the best. Your LX bars (which you will also need - else where is your power and data coming from?) will need load testing and certification.
If this lighting system is to be of any real use (eg school plays) you need a good basic desk, either memory or 2 preset. Do not buy disco junk for this. If you do go for moving heads, you need a desk capable of LTP/HTP moving light control.
CPC LED PARs at £40 will be washed out by an overcast day. These sort of things are designed for eye-candy at discos. They aren't designed for 'proper' lighting. Usually the dimming curve on them is horrendous. The beam angle will be tight, and you won't be able to mix a good enough white for basic work. LED suitable for 'proper' lighting will cost more than several 2nd hand convensionals.
Whatever you do, make sure you budget enough for that odd extension cable you might need, replacement lamps, tapes etc.
There is a lot to think about here, and a risk of money being wasted if it's not thought about properly by experienced people.
Thanks to iSteve from:
mikkydoos (29th February 2012)
29th February 2012, 09:41 AM #19
OK. Thanks for great replies guys.
Budget is £5000 minus a short throw projector and cage + fitting.
Any recommendations on spec / positioning ?? -- Got to be DMX and preferably RGB lamps!
Have I got enough ??
1st March 2012, 09:45 AM #20
I concur with the comments above, but can I add you might need to ensure the lighting and sound systems are wired on completely different circuits. This is obviuosly quite expensive, but if not done you risk a continual hum through the sound system, varying when you adjust the lights through your dimmer.
Thanks to rdk from:
mikkydoos (1st March 2012)
1st March 2012, 10:11 AM #21
Youre right RDK. I'm a musician. Earth loop hums are terrible!
6th March 2012, 10:19 AM #22
But wiring from separate circuits will NOT cure earth loops. Proper wiring of the sound system is the only cure and prevention is always better than cure!
Thanks to Andrew_C from:
mikkydoos (6th March 2012)
6th March 2012, 10:33 AM #23
Yep. Balance everything.
Big thanks to all you guys for your helpful comments. I think I've got a pretty good idea about what to do.
Managed to get a good price on a pro installation with maintenence ; )
Mikky ; )
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