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AV and Multimedia Related Thread, Clickview and its legalities in Technical; Well, I have spoken with Clickview and the law sits like this: If you have an ERA+ license and the ...
  1. #16

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    Well, I have spoken with Clickview and the law sits like this:

    If you have an ERA+ license and the movie you want to show has been aired on any channel, then you can upload your own, school bought DVD version to the clickview server. In his words "After a few months, almost all movies have been aired on one channel or another, it's just new releases you won't be able to use".

    Obviously this is in the context of a classroom, and if you wanted to use it for a film club or extra curricular license, then you would need to apply for the appropriate license.

    Pete

  2. #17
    australiana's Avatar
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    I think there is some confusion here - if your copy has been recorded off TV then you can distribute it within the school or provide a copy (eg via Clickview Exchange) for other schools to use. However, you cannot rip a commercial movie DVD and put it on Clickview even if it has been shown on the box.

  3. #18
    DrCheese's Avatar
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    How would they know tho? Unless the film has been cut slightly differently for TV it would be impossible.

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    Quite easy to tell really. For a start the TV copy would have the station 'watermark' running right through it. It would also have numerous technical differences.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleSi View Post
    On a scale of 1-10 of the moral and legal behaviour (in terms of copyright abuse) that happens in schools - media shifting (of purchased content) has got to be -1.

    Find a real cause to fight

    Like littering on the streets

    Si
    Nothing to do with a 'cause', it is about doing the job legally. It isn't our place to decide whether to follow a law as it is low in the importance scale or not, that's for MPs and judges to decide. Else, what if my idea of unimportant is higher up the scale than yours? What if I see theft as unimportant? That's why the law exists, so that we have a common set of standards to work from, rather than making moral judgements of our own.

    Also, as someone else said later, technically, even if you have an ERA+ license, you can only format-shift a film if it has been recorded from free to air TV, not if it has been on TV and you've bought the commercial release DVD.

  6. #21
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    Easy to obtain legal copies

    Generally, it is easy to avoid even considering ripping commercial DVDs. If the movie has been shown on TV, and has any potential educational value, then you can be sure that it has been recorded by another Clickview school who are usually happy to help and upload to the Exchange. One method for making a request like this is to use the Clickview Forum - Clickview UK forum • Index page

  7. #22

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    @peteraseddon whoever told you that at ClickView should be looking for another job!

    The law sits like this.

    If you record from a FTA channel and have an ERA+ licence then you can stick it in ClickView.
    If you rip a commercial DVD and stick it on ClickView without express permission and/or licence from the publishers then it is still illegal at this time.

    Whilst it might seem like arguing the toss about where you get it from there is an important point to be had. Some films will not be played on FTA channels within a few months as they tend to go to pay-per-view or pay-monthly channels first. The same applies for non-FTA channels ... you can't record Sky Sports, Discovery, etc ... and any sales drone at ClickView or other companies who sell similar are likely to just say that they gave an example and they cannot be held liable for *you* breaking the law!

  8. #23
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    You can get it if you really want

    I'd be surprised if anyone from Clickview would say something like this when it is so obviously incorrect - it is probably just a misunderstanding or hearing what you want to hear. Anyway, as I indicated in my last post it is not generally necessary to even consider ripping DVDs. The Clickview Exchange is a massive resource (over 6000 programs) and you can usually find what you need there. Tweet Clickviewdanny if you are having real difficulties and he will usually come up with a school that can help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peteraseddon View Post
    Well, I have spoken with Clickview and the law sits like this:

    If you have an ERA+ license and the movie you want to show has been aired on any channel, then you can upload your own, school bought DVD version to the clickview server. In his words "After a few months, almost all movies have been aired on one channel or another, it's just new releases you won't be able to use".

    Obviously this is in the context of a classroom, and if you wanted to use it for a film club or extra curricular license, then you would need to apply for the appropriate license.

    Pete
    Hi Pete,

    I've had this thread brought to my attention via Twitter, hope you don't mind me barging in! After some tough interrogation I'm afraid we haven't found the culprit, but if they're out there I can assure you I'll find them. But joking aside, I've not heard anyone within ClickView hand out advice such as you've suggested and wouldn't ever recommend adding a copyrighted DVD to your library.

    Just to clear things up, you should not add a copyrighted / commercial DVD to ClickView. This is not to say it's not technically possible, but if you want to remain on the right side of the law then the DVD should not be added. Your quote is true that most films probably end up getting aired at some point, but in that case the free to air recording should be added to the library, not your DVD in anticipation of it being aired! Saying all this, we are not the copyright police and are not responsible for what is in your library, therefore it is completely your responsibility should such content find its way onto your ClickView Library Server.

    As has been mentioned in the thread I'm on Twitter and you can catch me by following @ClickViewDanny should you need me.

    Danny

  10. Thanks to ClickViewDanny from:

    GrumbleDook (12th September 2011)

  11. #25
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    With any luck the government will push forward with it's plans to make format shifting totally legal
    BBC News - UK copyright law to 'be brought in line with reality'

    Hopefully it will apply to schools as well, then this won't be an issue anymore. Its just stupid how a recording from FTA tv is fine, yet ripping the DVD is not, even it has already aired.

  12. #26
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    Just to add what I understand there are two ERA licenses The ERA and the ERA+
    The ERA license allows recording of free to air programs for use WITHIN the school
    The ERA+ license allows pupils and Staff from the licensed organisation to view those recordings from off site ie from home.
    The last time I enquired ERA licences (NOT ERA+) are held by every borough in England Bar 2. This may have changed over the last year. Sharing between schools is not covered but seems to go on regardless via clickview. I understand that the recording has to be done by a member of the licensed school I'd say they are sailing close to the wind with the clickview sharing between institutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hacksawbob View Post
    Just to add what I understand there are two ERA licenses The ERA and the ERA+
    The ERA license allows recording of free to air programs for use WITHIN the school
    The ERA+ license allows pupils and Staff from the licensed organisation to view those recordings from off site ie from home.
    The last time I enquired ERA licences (NOT ERA+) are held by every borough in England Bar 2. This may have changed over the last year. Sharing between schools is not covered but seems to go on regardless via clickview. I understand that the recording has to be done by a member of the licensed school I'd say they are sailing close to the wind with the clickview sharing between institutions.
    Hi Hacksawbob,

    Our Exchange server is regulated by ERA, the sharing between institutions is covered by an ERA+ licence. I can assure you that ClickView Exchange does not break any law nor does it come close to doing so. This has been the case since the Exchange was started.

    I'm sure ERA would be happy to give a more detailed explanation than I have and will chase this up if anyone thinks it would be useful?

    Danny

  14. #28

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    I had an inspector here from the ERA a couple of years ago. She was entirely happy with CV, Exchange, and the way we are using it. This is what Exchange was designed to do.

  15. #29
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    Thanks Danny, Just going off what's on the ERA site, here's where I am getting that information. Maybe you could enlighten us on how Clickview addresses these clauses?

    "Copies made by an authorised resource centre or other third party
    may only be delivered to the establishment in hard copy form and
    not by email, unless prior written permission has been obtained
    from ERA"


    "For example, licensed establishments may copy recordings and
    supply them on cassette or disc to ERA licensees who have
    missed a broadcast"...
    Note that on-line delivery and electronic
    transmission of copies between licensees or a licensed resource
    centre is not permitted unless written third party agreements with
    ERA are in place to cover such exchange.


    I take it Clickview have written permission from the ERA to operate the sharing service between establishments?

    ERA+ para 2.4
    ...any such copying shall be made:
    (b) at the premises of a third party authorised by the Licensee to make copies on behalf of the Licensee under written
    contractual terms and conditions which prevent the retention or use of any copies by that third party
    or any other
    third party unless ERA shall have expressly agreed that a specific third party may retain any copies for subsequent use only by current Licensees under an ERA Plus Agreement

    So one school would need to have written contractual permission to another school? Or does clickview become the specific third party? Thanks Bob

  16. #30
    australiana's Avatar
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    I will let those who are better qualified respond to the legalistic points made above.

    I would just note that Andrew has said that an ERA officer who inspected his school's system, and use of the Exchange, had no doubt about the absolute legality of what they were doing and there was no suggestion they were "sailing close to the wind". Moreover, Clickview Exchange is used by hundreds of schools and it is obvious that if the Exchange operated outside the rules then ERA would have forced it to close or make substantial changes. This has not happened and I would therefore suggest that the doubts raised above do not have any foundation.
    Last edited by australiana; 20th September 2011 at 12:53 AM.



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