Casio "Lampless" projectors

[fiza]

I think they will be OK when the price comes down but at the moment there is no benifit over the cheaper Epson and simler projectors who now give you a free lamp, and as lamps last 5,000 hrs (five years) that is Ten years of lamps with a new Epson
Marc
Projector Engineer

Can you let me know which suppliers I can get an Epson from with a spare lamp (giving me 10 years)? I would be very interested in this deal.

[sparkeh]

From real-life use, I'd disagree entirely. I've *never* seen a normal projector lamp last 5000 hours. Ever. 2500? Sure. Having to swap lamps is not fun though. Its disruptive and annoying.

Wonder if that's 5000 hrs in "Eco mode" which I have never seen anyone use?
Totally agree with this ^^

[Marc-Engineer]

I would but i cant advertise. But it is the normal Educational cover also if you buy several you are entitled to a free spare projector for warrenty cover on site to enable same day swapout.
The lamp life on Epsons is 5,000 hrs from the X11 onwards, yes if you obstruct the airflow you wont get that but i have had many projectors with close to that pre X11 so its not unusual, also if you incline the projector more than 20 degres out of horizontal you will shorten the lamplife.

Marc
Projector Engineer

[fiza]

I would but i cant advertise. But it is the normal Educational cover also if you buy several you are entitled to a free spare projector for warrenty cover on site to enable same day swapout.

Not what I have been told. I have made a few enquiries with some suppliers and the standard Education Warranty they offer is 3 year Projector and Bulb. No mention of 5 years or spare bulbs.
Can you pm me any details?

[elsiegee40]

Marc you clearly have a great deal of experience of projectors and, from I've seen, you are far from being a fan of LED projectors, but you do seem to be in a significant minority on here.

Many of us have found them to be a million times better than the bulb projectors. The life, warranty and performance of LED Epsons and Casios has proved itself time and again in the classroom. It's so good to have something you can just switch on and off and only have to dust rather than clean filters, change the bulbs and watch the image fade and change colour as it ages.

[synaesthesia]

One of my primaries is entirely LED based (Casio M130's I believe) and they're bloody marvellous. None of them have missed a beat, instant on, quality is identical now to the day they were fitted, brightness and clarity is excellent and despite having fans and no filters they don't seem to have as much dust ingress as what they replaced (some Epsons, mostly Sanyos *shudder*)

For note we've just put in a couple of Epson X11's here though, lovely little units and worth the hype.

[Marc-Engineer]

Hi please dont get me wrong i do like LED projectors and i know there are new ones comming out from other makers, its just i see the broken ones the first ones Casio sent out started with 20 year cover then they halved it and i have seen several burn out and with age they get a colour cast going green tinted they are also noiesy and get very hot some reported catching fire, but so can lamp projectors, but i think some people lose the way a little when adding up the cost they like any other projector suck in the dust and need cleaning, most projectors need little cleaning now (used to be every 1,000 hrs) and a service every 3 years is often enough, now the first models where withdrawn and another model came out much improved but, they are too expencive. Add it up what is the cost of a Casio for say its life and think this will be 10 years max (regardless of what is claimed) so about the same as a modern Epson say X11 epson less than £300 with 5 year cover and replacement lamp (lamps are now only £100 or less) with free lamp unlikly you would buy more than one in ten years as they have a claimed life of 5,000 hrs so total cost for ten years £400 now what is the cost of a Casio for same Ten years? also epson are instant off same as many now so no cooloing as per older projectors. So please show me the benifit of LED?

Marc
Projector Engineer

[zag]

Indeed, the Casio's were a game changer.

Wouldn't buy anything else.

[j17sparky]

Hi please dont get me wrong i do like LED projectors and i know there are new ones comming out from other makers, its just i see the broken ones the first ones Casio sent out started with 20 year cover then they halved it and i have seen several burn out and with age they get a colour cast going green tinted they are also noiesy and get very hot some reported catching fire, but so can lamp projectors, but i think some people lose the way a little when adding up the cost they like any other projector suck in the dust and need cleaning, most projectors need little cleaning now (used to be every 1,000 hrs) and a service every 3 years is often enough, now the first models where withdrawn and another model came out much improved but, they are too expencive. Add it up what is the cost of a Casio for say its life and think this will be 10 years max (regardless of what is claimed) so about the same as a modern Epson say X11 epson less than £300 with 5 year cover and replacement lamp (lamps are now only £100 or less) with free lamp unlikly you would buy more than one in ten years as they have a claimed life of 5,000 hrs so total cost for ten years £400 now what is the cost of a Casio for same Ten years? also epson are instant off same as many now so no cooloing as per older projectors. So please show me the benifit of LED?

Marc
Projector Engineer

£400? You've missed the cost of the service, both time, ensuring this is done out of school term (which for term time only techs may be a problem), service turn around time and potential replacement projector while waiting for the projector to be returned and cost of the service itself, plus the cost in time for replacing the bulb. Last time I checked a projector service was £150+. Therefore Epson x11 = ~£750* over 10 years (Plus what happens in 6 years time when you can't find a replacement bulb?)

Casio LED = ~£600 over 10 years.


To me on paper it's fairly close between the 2 technologies, but when averaged over how ever many dozen projectors you look after and taking into account the time spent auditing their lamp life and trying to predict the number of bulbs you will need in stock each year, my money is on LEDs being the clear winner after 10 years.


* Sorry miscalculated. I originally put £600 but 2 services in the 10 years = £300, + £100+ bulb, + £300 projector, + time = ~£750

[localzuk]

£400? You've missed the cost of the service, both time, ensuring this is done out of school term and cost of the service itself, plus the cost in time for replacing the bulb. Last time I checked a projector service was £150+. Therefore Epson x11 = ~£600 over 10 years (Plus what happens in 6 years time when you can't find a replacement bulb?)

Casio LED = ~£600 over 10 years.

That issue with the cost of bulbs is an important one. They may be £100 now, but history shows us that they don't stay that price for long. They slowly but surely increase price until they hit £250 a bulb like those for the EMP-74 etc...

[j17sparky]

That issue with the cost of bulbs is an important one. They may be £100 now, but history shows us that they don't stay that price for long. They slowly but surely increase price until they hit £250 a bulb like those for the EMP-74 etc...

Very true, part of the reason I rarely replace bulbs. By the time you spend the £100-200+ on the bulb and think about giving it a service you wonder why you are spending so much on a projector which is now out of warranty when a new one is £300.

[Marc-Engineer]

Actually as i said BOTH projectors will require service as they BOTH suck in dust at the same rate, i have serviced many casios, the cost of service is half what you quote, and history has shown us lamp price has actually come down consistantly over the last ten years, now modern lamps are a fraction of what they would have cost you even 5 years ago for the newer models. I have NEVER had a problem getting lamps for populer projectors yes some obscure Delta and the like but even Sanyo older models and all epson are still available, just checked sanyo prices have dropped from £235 to £120 for their last models.

We have NEVER had any increse in any of our lamp prices, they have always been downward.

Marc
Projector Engineer

[j17sparky]

Actually as i said BOTH projectors will require service as they BOTH suck in dust at the same rate

Fair enough, but we all know LCD and DLP/LED don't need servicing at the same rate. LCDs suffer from mirror burn after a couple of years. So far I am yet to see a LED suffer from the same problems. Obviously YMMV depending on dust levels, filter cleaning routine (who can honestly say every one of their projectors has its filters cleaned every month?)...

just checked sanyo prices have dropped from £235 to £120 for their last models.

We have NEVER had any increse in any of our lamp prices, they have always been downward.

I said after 6 years. What about 9 years, can you still get lamps for them? Looking at a quite common model we have, the BECTA sanyo xe31 which came out 6 years ago, and the lamp price is around £170. So if we say the service is £75 then thats £245. At that price is it worth paying £245 to extend the life of something which could fail when you can buy new for £300?

Plus we haven't even came to the issue of lamps becoming useless in their last ~20% of their life.

[elsiegee40]

Dare I say it that the views of an engineer and those of school techs are bound to differ.

The former only spends his time on projectors.

The rest of us are grateful to have something that frees us up to do everything else. You cannot underestimate the cost of man hours spent on keeping conventional projectors going!

[SimpleSi]

Just as a bit of info - I recently had a Casio develop spots before its eyes (prob dust in there somewhere)

You have to go on a website an register the fault to get a returns number and pay to have it sent back (which cost us 25 pounds via post office!)

It (or a replacement - I didn't check) was back a week later all working fine.

This is only the 1st one to fail on me (one failed after a week - not counting that one) and I've got about 10 in service

regards
Simon