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AV and Multimedia Related Thread, Education Recording Agency and iPlayer in Technical; Daily I get requests to record from iPlayer because staff spot something too late to ask for it to be ...
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    S.C.'s Avatar
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    Unhappy Education Recording Agency and iPlayer

    Daily I get requests to record from iPlayer because staff spot something too late to ask for it to be recorded. One solution we looked at was ClickView, but already having a Sky+ and ADVC-55 set, the annual cost didn't seem worth it. I then stumbled across the new YouView boxes which offered iPlayer access.

    The ERA's website at the time made it unclear whether this access was allowed. In fact, I was left with the impression that because defeating DRM was not allowed (i.e. ripping the video to remove the DRM), but it was allowed by other means. I even phoned the ERA to check if buying a YouView box was OK. They (helpfully) hadn't heard of the devices, but because it wasn't bypassing DRM said they thought it was OK. I should have got that in writing.

    Skip forward a couple of months and we buy a YouView box ... and the ERA have updated their website and now make it crystal clear that any on-demand video is off-limits.

    Side note: we're cancelling Sky anyway and keeping the YouView box for the free-to-air TV functionality, but it's still really frustrating. You try to do the right thing and follow the rules and just get slapped down.

    I left wondering what is the difference between taping off the TV and taping off iPlayer?

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    Where abouts on the ERA site are you looking?

    The ERA Licensing Scheme seems to indicate things have changed and all the ondemand(BBC/C4 on that link, C5 & ITV via The ERA Licensing Scheme) services now allow educational use

    James

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    This is really confusing. I knew their website used to have cover for on-demand, but look at this page on their site regarding what the licence covers:
    The ERA Licensing Scheme

    What about on-demand services?

    On demand services, i.e. where the viewer or listener actively chooses the viewing or listening time or content of individual programmes as part of that service, are not considered to be broadcasts under the Act and are therefore neither covered by an ERA licence nor by any part of Section 35.
    It doesn't help that the LEA holds a county-wide licence, but no one there who I know seems to know about the existence of the ERA.

    I think another phone call is in order.

    Thanks James

    Graham

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    Typical... clear as mud!

    Their FAQ links into the /on_demand.html page. To be honest I've never looked at the terms & conditions, our staff seem to assume they have the rights to use what they like when they like... telling the nursery they can't use IPlayer would probably get me shot

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    S.C.'s Avatar
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    The plot thickens. I've just spoken to the ERA:

    The BBC and Channel4 have granted the use of on-demand services to schools holding an ERA licence. The use of these services is not covered by the ERA licence, but you can only use them IF you have an ERA licence. It took some minutes to clarify, but that use extends only to playing on-demand videos in the class room... schools are not allowed to circumvent DRM.

    I went into detail about the YouView box and the lady I spoke to doesn't know if it is allowed or not. While not circumventing DRM, the permission to use on-demand may not extend to being able to record. She suggested I call the BBC for clarification. The ERA's person with a contact at the beeb is back in the office tomorrow and will hopefully pass on the details of Auntie's relevant department. I post the results of any conversation here.

    So in plain English (until I find out more), it looks like: You can play from iPlayer, but you can't keep any videos.

    Graham

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    Sounds like progress

    Just found this in their leaflet

    What about on-demand services?

    On-demand services, i.e. where the viewer or listener actively
    chooses the viewing or listening time or content of individual
    programmes as part of that service, are not considered to be
    broadcasts under the Act and are therefore not automatically
    covered by an ERA licence nor by any part of Section 35.

    There are different types of on-demand services (e.g. podcasts).
    Where the terms and conditions for reception of the service permit
    customers to record programmes for subsequent viewing, care
    needs to be taken to ensure that any recording or subsequent
    educational use does not go beyond private non-commercial
    recording permitted by those terms and conditions.

    Broadcast programme services where the provider or broadcaster
    offers a range of fixed viewing times for the viewer to select from,
    are not on-demand services and may be recorded.This includes
    simulcasts of the broadcast delivered via the internet.

    Non-scheduled internet transmissions are not broadcasts and are
    not automatically covered by the ERA Licence.

    However in some cases, the terms and conditions applicable for
    use may make an express link to allow holders of an ERA Licence
    to access the service for educational purposes. More information
    about this will be publishesd by ERA in due course

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    sonofsanta's Avatar
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    It's a sorry state of affairs when VHS is a better fit for our needs

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonofsanta View Post
    It's a sorry state of affairs when VHS is a better fit for our needs
    That reminds me of why we got the Sky+ in the first place. A few years ago, the requests became:

    "Can you tape X for me".
    "We don't have a TV aerial, but if you tape it at home, we can capture the tape."
    "I don't have a VHS recorder, could you tape it at home for me."

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    Update from the ERA

    As promised, here's the latest email from the ERA:

    Further to our telephone conversation yesterday I confirm that the BBC has altered its terms and conditions for the I-Player service so that schools can use the service for educational, non-commercial purposes so long as they have an ERA Licence. Recordings made with the You View Box must be in line with the terms and conditions of use on I-Player.


    So...a quick scan through the terms and conditions on the BBC's website, did not show any mention recording. It does refer to DRM and how users aren't allowed to remove DRM. Fair enough.

    My reading of it is that schools can record from iPlayer as long as it involves a legitimate method, i.e. without ripping videos to remove DRM. Does anyone concur or disagree? Not that that would be binding, but it would be good for someone to back up my logic.

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    Jamman960's Avatar
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    I'd agree with that, essentially the youview box is acting in the same way as the desktop app would when saving shows by deleting them when expired etc its just the storage medium that differs

    James



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